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IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
(04-13-2011, 03:21 PM)Captain America Wrote: OM616 it's not nice to taunt!

I said that I would be willing to work with the moderators with the goal of providing more detailed explanation of what each screw does, so you all can figure out for your selves what you want to do. I am actually very uncomfortable with this because I have fixed several IPs that were screwed up by people trying to follow vague directions with no idea of how it works.

The Information I would provide is based on several successful tune ups and corrections, and in many ways, will contradict what was previously posted.

I personally, will not be posting any, "turn this X number of turns" sort of thing. The farthest I would be willing to go is to describe my procedure to set the Idle after an adjustment.

I am very busy, and after having to deal with that ### ####, I have no interest in posting anything to be honest. I am merely trying to balance karma, as I use these forums for information, so I think it is only right that I give back. Unlike the past, I am not looking for any discussion.

When the moderators are ready, I will generate some information that is inline with their format. If that is not good enough for everyone, just say so and save me a lot of time.

One other suggestion is to ask the diesel shop guy that has been posting to post how he would go about governor adjustments. He is trying to sell his equipment, so he might be willing to earn some good will.

Sorry for sounding short, it’s been a long day.

04-13-2011, 08:38 PM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
Oh wow. Sorry I asked. Don't really undestand why this is such a tense subject...

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

04-13-2011, 10:47 PM
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garage Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
Damn...wtf
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
04-14-2011, 08:45 AM
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300D50 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
We're working on a new guide, OM616 is willing to help, we just don't want to throw something half-arsed up.

The old guide was put back up by Winmutt for the time being.
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04-14-2011, 09:31 AM
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willbhere4u Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
Thank's for bringing good info here 0m616!
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04-14-2011, 10:19 AM
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ronnie Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
One word for why this is a tense subject= Forced. I have seen Forced really tear down OM616 without just reason, name calling and all, too many times. Also notice the copyright.

I do hope OM616 will put his info up. He has been a good help to me for tuning the ip, and I have have found his explanations to be very good.
04-15-2011, 07:25 PM
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josha37 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
616 is the man. Big Grin . oh and if i can help i would be more than happy to i have been through most of this already so i could lend some personal experience as well.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2011, 04:22 PM by josha37.)
04-21-2011, 01:14 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
I dont mean to push or pressure but it would be soooooo awesome if OM616's Great information was shared... I am VERY close to tuning my pump for the new chassis and plan to do it on the floor so I can get everything right before it goes into the car. Please please please!

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

05-13-2011, 01:58 AM
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300D50 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
We're working on it with him, don't worry.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72

I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
05-13-2011, 02:18 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
So Anxious! Blush

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

05-13-2011, 04:38 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
(05-13-2011, 01:58 AM)Captain America Wrote: I dont mean to push or pressure but it would be soooooo awesome if OM616's Great information was shared... I am VERY close to tuning my pump for the new chassis and plan to do it on the floor so I can get everything right before it goes into the car. Please please please!

Go ahead and put the engine in the car. The information I am providing will do you no good without the engine running. I am not sure what IP you have, but I am only covering the MW/RW combination.
05-14-2011, 10:42 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
I wanted to do adjustments on the floor (where it can run) to test return to idle, Get everything tits, then throw it in the car. I have a MW pump

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

05-14-2011, 03:45 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps, pyrometer install
I am also very anxious. I am waiting for this new thread and my oil filter relocation plate before i do anything to my pump Big Grin
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
05-15-2011, 08:10 AM
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carlitosgy6 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
HI ,im doing a om617 turbo swap in my 2000 ford ranger and im trying to know the most from this engines,injectors fuel system and how to work and tune them,i found this guide for tuning the ip,but my ip looks different than the ones in the pictures,and one of the spares ip has like a electrical contacts on a side, so i take a few pictures for you people to let me know with what im working,thanks in advance
ps let me know how to attach pictures
08-14-2011, 06:43 PM
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aaa Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Not all of the pictured are your IP, but a couple of them are. Your spare is probably an 85 which came with an additional sensor on the side.
08-14-2011, 09:23 PM
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carlitosgy6 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-14-2011, 09:23 PM)aaa Wrote: Not all of the pictured are your IP, but a couple of them are. Your spare is probably an 85 which came with an additional sensor on the side.
thats the pictures of my spare ip,but the other ips that i have looks the same except for the electrics on the side



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08-15-2011, 08:18 PM
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aaa Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
You have the usual MW ip. Unfortunately the diagram of what's what on the back of an MW is gone. Maybe we should label your backside pic and use it.

Ah and our other thread, bit more detail on what each part does:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=2770
08-15-2011, 08:57 PM
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rolfi Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
On my M-pump, the full load screw couldn't be turned more than 2 turns out, before hitting the back cover... How is this solved? My thought was actually to cut it to make it shorter, but a better solution would maybe be to make a new back cover?
Any thoughts?

The IP is a M-pump from a 300D NA on a OM617.952 turbodiesel engine.
-rolfi

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+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
11-09-2011, 06:33 AM
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iheartboost Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I would vote for bending or altering the cover. You dont wanna cut things inside. That just sounds bad lol.

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11-09-2011, 08:43 AM
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rolfi Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(11-09-2011, 08:43 AM)iheartboost Wrote: I would vote for bending or altering the cover. You dont wanna cut things inside. That just sounds bad lol.

I know it sounds bad, that's why I figured I'd ask for opinions :p
How about welding a new cover, with more room in the rear? It will take more time than modifying the old one, but then I have the opportunity to get it back to stock (Yea, like that's going to happen lol) if I want to...

-rolfi

1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
11-11-2011, 01:54 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Cut a hole and make a dome cap to cover the area and weld it on.


Do you guys make special sockets to adjust the IP? I took the cover off mine and there was a clip on the end of the torque control, is this normal to have a clip on the end of the shaft? I couldn't really do anything because of space, so I put it back together. I'm going to pull the IP since its pretty easy and adjust the pump.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2011, 07:02 PM by toyfreak.)
11-28-2011, 12:03 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Yes, making the collar tools out of sockets is common

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

11-29-2011, 02:37 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
So I tried to turn up the IP, and now my idle is high and I have no power. I do get a nice puff of dark grey smoke when I first hit the throttle and taking off there is a good strong lunge and then nothing. Here is what I have done so far.
Max speed gov- 1 turn CW
Torque Control - 3/4 turn CW
rack limiter - 3 turns CCW
Idle bump stop - 1/2 CW
Idle gov - don't know for sure but not more than 1/2 turn either way.
Vertical throttle stop - 2 turns CCW, but has better return to idle at original position.

I was just trying to turn the idle down while the engine was running and it would not go down. I'm not sure what I can do at this point. Anyone have some suggestions?
01-13-2012, 12:31 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Has the IP timing changed?

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

01-13-2012, 01:48 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Yeah, I set it to 27 from 26 btdc.
I also just went for a drive with the idle high and the mentioned settings the same except the vert throt screw I turned another full turn out. The response without boost was about the same if not better than before, but I am not getting chit for boost. At the top of the rpms, i get maybe 5 psi. I am thinking that besides the idle not going down, my wastegate may be stuck open, causing a lot of power loss. I'll have to borrow a vacuum tester and see if the wastegate is stuck.

On my previous post, the no power was with the vert throttle screw turned 9 CCW. There I can get a decent idle with a really fast return to idle, but absolutely no power.
01-13-2012, 02:27 AM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Well no boost equals no power. I would first make sure ALDA line is not blocked and then focus on getting at least 12 psi. You can just pinch or disconnect the wastegate line to check if the boost comes up. I have not heard of any of the wastegates sticking open on these cars.

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

01-13-2012, 03:11 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Originally I adjusted the WG to 10-11 psi, but after a couple of days, it returned to 8 like previously. I now have a, "manual boost controller," if you can call it that. It won't boost over 5 at the top of the rpm range. The boost is acting identically to my alltrac when the WG stuck open. I'll probably re-check the ALDA and lines to it, but they were cleaned not that long ago. I have a gt2259 sitting in my basement, so I might work on setting that up soon too.

01-13-2012, 04:17 AM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(01-13-2012, 04:17 AM)toyfreak Wrote: Originally I adjusted the WG to 10-11 psi, but after a couple of days, it returned to 8 like previously. I now have a, "manual boost controller," if you can call it that. It won't boost over 5 at the top of the rpm range. The boost is acting identically to my alltrac when the WG stuck open. I'll probably re-check the ALDA and lines to it, but they were cleaned not that long ago. I have a gt2259 sitting in my basement, so I might work on setting that up soon too.

I don't have time right now, but I will get back to this tonight. I have a thought on the idle.
01-13-2012, 02:13 PM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Awesome!!! Thank you.
01-13-2012, 02:28 PM
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fabricator001 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Where can someone get they're injection pump modified with larger internal components to produce more power than the stock pump?
01-13-2012, 06:30 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(01-13-2012, 02:28 PM)toyfreak Wrote: Awesome!!! Thank you.

OK, this is a perfect example of why there can not be a standard set of adjustment instructions, each governor leaves the factory with a unique combination of settings depending on who on the line built the IP.

On a positive note, when this is straightened out, you should have the ability to evaluate the governor settings prior to doing this again, so you will know which adjustments need to go which way if at all. The lack of this ability (only gained by doing), is what got you in trouble, that and from what it sounds like, trying to duplicate the adjustment that another member posted, Smile

LOL, I was just reviewing the adjustments you posted and see why you do not have any power, but we will get back to that in a min.

Regarding the idle, from what you have posted, it sounds like you did not have positive control of the Idle Governor Screw while you were making the adjustment. The screw will turn when you turn the locking nut, unless you are holding the screw while you are loosening and snugging the lock nut.

The Idle Governor setting is too high and needs to be backed off to lower the regulated Idle speed. Depending on the idle speed it is now, at least 1/2 a turn CCW. You may need to go more, but try that first and see what the idle speed is when the return to idle is how you want it. YOU MUST HOLD THE SCREW WHEN LOOSTENING AND TIGHTNING THE LOCK NUT!!!!!!!!!! If this can not be done, do not try to adjust it again, you will either get lucky, or end up farther out of whack. I bet your Idle governor was set on the strong side and probably needed to be reduced instead of increased, this is how my 617a is, I will have to back the Idle off a touch if I ever tweak it.This is in contrast to 616 IPs where the Idle Governor it week and needs to be increased.

As for the Idle Bump Stop, it does not need to be adjusted unless it is not working, back it off to where it was before. The only time that is needed to be adjusted is if when the engine is revved, and the throttle is quickly brought back to the idle position, the engine stalls, or struggles to "catch" and idle. In that case, the bump stops is too week and needs to be adjusted in a touch.

As for the Torque Control you are good, Max Speed you are good, and Rack Limiter,…., not so good. You went the wrong way, Turn it CW to INCREASE the rack travel (increase fuel), and CCW to DECREASE rack travel (decrease fuel).

Other than that, you are good, lol.

So to recap;

"Here is what I have done so far."

Max speed gov- 1 turn CW.........OK

Torque Control - 3/4 turn CW.......OK

rack limiter - 3 turns CCW......Not OK, Turn CW to Increase Fueling

Idle bump stop - 1/2 CW....Not OK, Turn back to where it was

Idle gov - don't know for sure but not more than 1/2 turn either way..........Totally not OK....Needs to be turned CCW at least 1/2 turn while maintaining positive control of the adjustment screw when loosening and tightening the lock nut.

Vertical throttle stop - 2 turns CCW, but has better return to idle at original position ……… I think you get how the Vertical Throttle Stop sets the return to Idle.

Please post how this turns out, or if you want to talk privately that is ok too. If you do as I recommend you will be fine, then again, free advice is usually worth every penny. Smile



01-13-2012, 10:18 PM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
^^^ That it is! Even for me to read Heart

OM616, Is there any instruction on how to reinstall the rack limiter for those of us who removed it based on the old incorrect instructions? I can get it back in, that's not the problem... But I have no idea where to set it. Any way of me figuring that out?

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

01-14-2012, 03:07 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(01-13-2012, 10:18 PM)OM616 Wrote:
(01-13-2012, 02:28 PM)toyfreak Wrote: Awesome!!! Thank you.

OK, this is a perfect example of why there can not be a standard set of adjustment instructions, each governor leaves the factory with a unique combination of settings depending on who on the line built the IP.

On a positive note, when this is straightened out, you should have the ability to evaluate the governor settings prior to doing this again, so you will know which adjustments need to go which way if at all. The lack of this ability (only gained by doing), is what got you in trouble, that and from what it sounds like, trying to duplicate the adjustment that another member posted, Smile

LOL, I was just reviewing the adjustments you posted and see why you do not have any power, but we will get back to that in a min.

Regarding the idle, from what you have posted, it sounds like you did not have positive control of the Idle Governor Screw while you were making the adjustment. The screw will turn when you turn the locking nut, unless you are holding the screw while you are loosening and snugging the lock nut.

The Idle Governor setting is too high and needs to be backed off to lower the regulated Idle speed. Depending on the idle speed it is now, at least 1/2 a turn CCW. You may need to go more, but try that first and see what the idle speed is when the return to idle is how you want it. YOU MUST HOLD THE SCREW WHEN LOOSTENING AND TIGHTNING THE LOCK NUT!!!!!!!!!! If this can not be done, do not try to adjust it again, you will either get lucky, or end up farther out of whack. I bet your Idle governor was set on the strong side and probably needed to be reduced instead of increased, this is how my 617a is, I will have to back the Idle off a touch if I ever tweak it.This is in contrast to 616 IPs where the Idle Governor it week and needs to be increased.

As for the Idle Bump Stop, it does not need to be adjusted unless it is not working, back it off to where it was before. The only time that is needed to be adjusted is if when the engine is revved, and the throttle is quickly brought back to the idle position, the engine stalls, or struggles to "catch" and idle. In that case, the bump stops is too week and needs to be adjusted in a touch.

As for the Torque Control you are good, Max Speed you are good, and Rack Limiter,…., not so good. You went the wrong way, Turn it CW to INCREASE the rack travel (increase fuel), and CCW to DECREASE rack travel (decrease fuel).

Other than that, you are good, lol.

So to recap;

"Here is what I have done so far."

Max speed gov- 1 turn CW.........OK

Torque Control - 3/4 turn CW.......OK

rack limiter - 3 turns CCW......Not OK, Turn CW to Increase Fueling

Idle bump stop - 1/2 CW....Not OK, Turn back to where it was

Idle gov - don't know for sure but not more than 1/2 turn either way..........Totally not OK....Needs to be turned CCW at least 1/2 turn while maintaining positive control of the adjustment screw when loosening and tightening the lock nut.

Vertical throttle stop - 2 turns CCW, but has better return to idle at original position ……… I think you get how the Vertical Throttle Stop sets the return to Idle.

Please post how this turns out, or if you want to talk privately that is ok too. If you do as I recommend you will be fine, then again, free advice is usually worth every penny. Smile

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it. Tomorrow I will pull the IP and readjust the rack and idle bumpstop.

As for the idle gov screw. My problem with no reduction in idle is that with the engine running, I can turn it 1 1/2 to 2 turns in either direction and it will not increase or decrease the idle. I did notice that the idle sounds different when you turn the screw more than 1/2 from where I had it in either direction. So, I got to see how you can completely throw off the idle spring tension by turning it too much. Also, when I make an adjustment to the idle gov, I have a deep socket on the nut and I turn the screw with a screwdriver, holding the nut in place. Once I get the screw where I want it, I snug down the nut by hand, while still holding the screwdriver, and then use the ratchet to tighten it the rest of the way.

I think I will start with the rack and bumpstop, reinstall the IP, check timing, and then see how it acts. I have a feeling the idle bumpstop may be the culprit causing the high idle. When I originally set everything, I had both idle screws set 1/2 turn CW.

I was looking at how others had set theirs previously because I wanted a middle starting point and was too impatient to go a little at a time. Lesson learned I guess.


Thanks again.
Jesse
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2012, 05:23 AM by toyfreak.)
01-14-2012, 04:58 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Ok, I have a decent idle now. It's still high, but not too bad. Still the idle gov spring doesn't seem to be doing much, if anything. I turned the vertical throttle stop 2.5 CCW to get a decent idle speed and return to idle is actually good. The worst part is, I am back to the power I was before except the off the line seems better. The rack is 2.5 turns CW now, and that is as far as it will go. I guess the IP is one of the ones you hope you don't get if you want power.
01-14-2012, 09:13 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Undecided
(01-14-2012, 09:13 PM)toyfreak Wrote: Ok, I have a decent idle now. It's still high, but not too bad. Still the idle gov spring doesn't seem to be doing much, if anything. I turned the vertical throttle stop 2.5 CCW to get a decent idle speed and return to idle is actually good. The worst part is, I am back to the power I was before except the off the line seems better. The rack is 2.5 turns CW now, and that is as far as it will go. I guess the IP is one of the ones you hope you don't get if you want power.

Oh how you give up so quickly,Undecided

I do not see where you gave the Horizontal Throttle Stop any attention. Also confirm the linkage is adjusted properly to allow full throttle travel.

What ever the distance the Horizontal Throttle Stop is away from the housing, turn it in at least half the distance, (for example, if there were 1 inch of threads, turn in the stop bolt in until there is only 1/2 inch of threads left), then report back. Feel free to go more, you can always back it off.

Also, The ALDA height, and function for that matter, may need to be adjusted and checked. A quick test is to remove the ALDA and see if the max power is increased. If yes, then you need to verify that the ALDA is working properly. If it is, then you will need to add some shims between the ALDA and the IP to raise the ALDA. It is not uncommon for the ALDA to be lower than it should, due to factory or loss of the shim when worked on previously.

Additionally, you should verify that you have sufficient fuel pressure at full power and speed.

You have a lot more room to adjust the Torque Control also, that is where most of your useable power is to be gained, and it sounds like it could use an additional full turn from where it is now. I bet the factory guy went light on the Torque Control and compensated by going heavy on the Rack Limeter. Can you adjust the TC with the IP on the engine?

You have gone this far, isn't as easy as you thought is it.Tongue
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2012, 11:28 PM by OM616.)
01-14-2012, 11:24 PM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I only gave up so quickly because I was trying to get my truck running good so I could go 4wheeling. I have been building it for the last two years, and the IP was the only thing holding me back. I will continue to adjust it, just don't always have time to do it. After I make a socket for the TC, I will start tinkering with it again.

The ALDA is adjusted 1/2 turn from all the way out. It gives a nice puff of grey smoke, sometimes almost black depending on how I take off. I am sure I will have to adjust it later once I start to get more power out of it. I'm not into the roll coal on everyone behind me.

Throttle linkage is good for how it is set now, but if I adjust the Horizontal Throttle stop, I will have to readjust it.

It is not easy, but definitely not the most difficult thing I have done.

Once again, thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject and helping me figure out my IP.

Here is a pic of my project at the OHV park.
86 4runner turbo with OM617/w56/toy dual cases, dana 60 front/14 bolt rear axles, 4link rear suspension, 42x15 pitbull rockers, and a lot of other little stuff.
[Image: photo4.jpg]

Jesse
01-16-2012, 03:20 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(01-16-2012, 03:20 PM)toyfreak Wrote: I only gave up so quickly because I was trying to get my truck running good so I could go 4wheeling. I have been building it for the last two years, and the IP was the only thing holding me back. I will continue to adjust it, just don't always have time to do it. After I make a socket for the TC, I will start tinkering with it again.

The ALDA is adjusted 1/2 turn from all the way out. It gives a nice puff of grey smoke, sometimes almost black depending on how I take off. I am sure I will have to adjust it later once I start to get more power out of it. I'm not into the roll coal on everyone behind me.

Throttle linkage is good for how it is set now, but if I adjust the Horizontal Throttle stop, I will have to readjust it.

It is not easy, but definitely not the most difficult thing I have done.

Once again, thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject and helping me figure out my IP.

Jesse

Sounds like you need to also do more of what you did to get the idle back down some, I assume that you backed off the Bump Stop, if so, I would back it off another 1/4 to 1/2 turn and set the idle governor speed.

The ALDA doesn’t have enough adjustment in it to make it a real performance change, lifting the ALDA with some shims will put it in the range you want and will still let you turn it down if you want.

It is not so much that you want to increase the max delivery as the end of injection will be late and the turbo can only handle so much efficiently. The power increase comes from delaying the reduction in fuel as the RPMs increase, that is where the Torque Control comes in.

Pay no attention to how someone else adjusted their IP, No two are the same, for example, your bump stop may not have been right from the start. Keep working with the Torque Control until you have CONTINIOUS BLACK smoke under at full power as the engine revs through the power band, then back off the Rack Limiter to eliminate the smoke, that will give you the power you are looking for.

Turning up the Max Speed will extend the power band, but again watch the EGT, I put a longer screw in mine, the stock ones are only good for a couple of turns.

Keep an eye on the EGTs and the boost close to 15 PSI.

The First IP I did, I had the back plate off about 15 times, then the Light bulb came on, the second was only 3 times, now I can tweak a governor in one shot (for the most part). The Bosch class was a bust for the most part, they were definitely not into performance adjustments!

I think you can see why I do not recommend anyone playing with the governor, it so easy to get into trouble, and expensive to get out.
01-16-2012, 08:27 PM
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sassparilla_kid Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Alright so my car idels at about 1000rpm, is this normal or should it be lower? If so how can I adjust it? (MW pump)
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-04-2012, 02:50 AM
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Using the info in this thread I just adjusted the pump on my 91 350SDL. I turned the full load and coarse idle screws one turn CCW, and turned the max RPM screw two turns changing the governor from 4000 rpm to 4400 RPM (it was too low before). The difference in performance is fantastic Cool

See for yourself.

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4XE_KFGwns
After: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srXc2xV0fO8

Thanks,

-Jason
02-18-2012, 10:50 PM
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Captain America Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(02-18-2012, 10:50 PM)compu_85 Wrote: Using the info in this thread I just adjusted the pump on my 91 350SDL. I turned the full load and coarse idle screws one turn CCW, and turned the max RPM screw two turns changing the governor from 4000 rpm to 4400 RPM (it was too low before). The difference in performance is fantastic Cool

See for yourself.

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4XE_KFGwns
After: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srXc2xV0fO8

Thanks,

-Jason

Nice! 10 sec 0-60 is not bad at all

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

02-20-2012, 03:10 AM
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toyfreak Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
So I recently tinkered with this again. I adjusted the TC and idle bumpstop. I lost count on the TC, but I drives way better now. I can actually accelerate like a normal car. Big Grin. It might have help that I put bigger street tires on too.

No black smoke while driving, but I get this cool looking stream when I let out the clutch idling and when not in gear and I mash the throttle.

EGT's are still low during acceleration (barely getting to 1000º F) and I can get 11psi boost with the wastegate adjusted all the way out.

I think a couple more adjustments to get the idle down a little and try to get a little more fuel and I should be good. I really enjoyed driving yesterday. Way better than before.
02-23-2012, 01:37 PM
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winmutt Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Updated the main thread for some om603 specifics.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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05-11-2012, 12:30 AM
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tee51397 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
MW Pump / RW governor
'83 240D

I'm hoping you experts can help me understand a few things and answer a question.

If one wanted to increase the strength of the idle governor / it's ability to regulate idle and not the idle speed itself would the correct adjustment be made to the bump stop spring? If so would the adjustment be made clockwise?

Second with minimum idle set shouldn't the only way it would dip below the set point be with an external force pulling the rack to the cut-off point? I guess what i'm really getting at is with the vertical stop and all external linkages and springs removed so that the throttle lever is totally free why would the governor not maintain the idle set point instead of continuing to drop to the cut-off point? Shouldn't the force of the flyweights/springs be enough to overcome a free lever if everything was set correctly?


I've really enjoyed reading this and many other threads so thanks for all the cumulative information.

-Tristan-
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2012, 10:38 AM by tee51397.)
06-09-2012, 10:34 AM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(06-09-2012, 10:34 AM)tee51397 Wrote: MW Pump / RW governor
'83 240D

I'm hoping you experts can help me understand a few things and answer a question.

If one wanted to increase the strength of the idle governor / it's ability to regulate idle and not the idle speed itself would the correct adjustment be made to the bump stop spring? If so would the adjustment be made clockwise?

Second with minimum idle set shouldn't the only way it would dip below the set point be with an external force pulling the rack to the cut-off point? I guess what i'm really getting at is with the vertical stop and all external linkages and springs removed so that the throttle lever is totally free why would the governor not maintain the idle set point instead of continuing to drop to the cut-off point? Shouldn't the force of the flyweights/springs be enough to overcome a free lever if everything was set correctly?


I've really enjoyed reading this and many other threads so thanks for all the cumulative information.

-Tristan-

The Bump Stop comes into play only when a load has been removed and the engine starts to rev up, at that point the fly weights over come the Idle Governor Spring and contacts the Bump Stop to momentarily bring the rack to or close to cut off, then when the engine speed has slowed down to the Recovery Speed, the Bump Stop pushes the Idle Governor Spring and Rack back in to Idle operation range.

If you turn in the Bump stop, it will increase the force required from the fly weights (higher speed) to compress the Bump Stop and bring the rack to the cut off point, and it will raise the Recovery Speed, this will result in a potentially uncontrollable high speed idle situation.

Here is the scenario where the Bump Stop could use an adjustment. Lets say the Idle governor Spring Tension is correct, the engine is idling with no loads. Then at the same time, the A/C is turned on, heater turned on full, head lights come on, and the trans is put into drive, the Idle governor will increase power to maintain idle with in a reasonable range, everything is good. Now just as the loads were applied, they are removed, and given the rack position required to maintain the loads will make the engine take off, the flyweight force pushes the rack and Bump Stop to the Cut Off point for a moment, but if the Bump Stop is too week, it will not be able to push the Fly Weights back when the engine reaches the Recover speed and the engine will stall.

If the Engine Idle speed is low or is week (stalls or struggles to maintain idle speed when loads are applied), that is the Idle Governor Spring Tension, If the engine only stalls or really struggles to recover when loads are removed, that is the Bump Stop that need a slight adjustment.

I get the impression that you are trying to do something with this engine than power a car correct?
06-10-2012, 11:57 AM
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tee51397 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Gotcha, thanks!

It's actually my 240D that won't maintain min idle under load, like the scenario you described above. With idle speed set at 800 it will drop to the 680 range with A/C on high and in drive (auto box). I've tried the coarse idle but if i bump it up more than half a turn CW I get a miss and it will drop low enough to die when the A/C load is applied. Fine tuning the vertical stop does not resolve it and the miss continues well up into the RPM range. Obviously 680 is below the range of the governor so I'm just a bit stumped.

Really what I'm trying to accomplish what you describe in the paper I believe you wrote on the Governor. Don't care if the the idle knob does anything as long as idle stays stable.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
'83 240D
06-10-2012, 02:28 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(06-10-2012, 02:28 PM)tee51397 Wrote: Gotcha, thanks!

It's actually my 240D that won't maintain min idle under load, like the scenario you described above. With idle speed set at 800 it will drop to the 680 range with A/C on high and in drive (auto box). I've tried the coarse idle but if i bump it up more than half a turn CW I get a miss and it will drop low enough to die when the A/C load is applied. Fine tuning the vertical stop does not resolve it and the miss continues well up into the RPM range. Obviously 680 is below the range of the governor so I'm just a bit stumped.

Really what I'm trying to accomplish what you describe in the paper I believe you wrote on the Governor. Don't care if the the idle knob does anything as long as idle stays stable.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

The Idle Governors on the 240Ds are set very week, and what you are describing is a standard condition with 240Ds.

To increase the idle strength and speed, the back cover of the IP will need to be removed and the Idle Governor will need to be adjusted CW. I usually give a 240D about 1/2 a turn in (CW), it may need more. Turning in the Idle Governor Spring Tension screw will increase the engines ability to maintain idle under load, and if properly adjusted, you will not need the dash pot at all.

As far as the miss you mentioned goes, that is not the governor. It sounds like you may need to look at the engine, valve adj, Injector condition, Compression test, etc to fix that.
06-10-2012, 04:48 PM
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tee51397 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I do have low base pressure and am waiting on the new lift pump to come in so I surmise that is either whole or part of the miss issue.

So on a 616 is the theory to tighten the Idle Governor Spring Tension screw until the idle starts to creep up, like taking out play? or is it more of a balancing act where idle is increased with the Idle Governor Spring Tension screw then the fine / vertical stop backed off to keep idle in the target range until the idle is stable with or without a load?
'83 240D
06-10-2012, 06:12 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(06-10-2012, 06:12 PM)tee51397 Wrote: I do have low base pressure and am waiting on the new lift pump to come in so I surmise that is either whole or part of the miss issue.

So on a 616 is the theory to tighten the Idle Governor Spring Tension screw until the idle starts to creep up, like taking out play? or is it more of a balancing act where idle is increased with the Idle Governor Spring Tension screw then the fine / vertical stop backed off to keep idle in the target range until the idle is stable with or without a load?

The Idle Governor Spring Tension alone controls the regulated Idle speed. Right now it is just set too low and is relying on the throttle to crutch it so to speak.

When the Idle Governor is set properly, adjusting the Vertical Throttle Stop will change how quickly the engine returns to Idle when the engine is revved up. In reality, every 240D left the factory with the governors improperly adjusted.

You will need to turn in the Idle Governor Spring Tension Screw, (increasing the spring tension) until the engine will maintain the desired idle speed while loaded and un loaded.
06-10-2012, 10:30 PM
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tee51397 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
So, the miss was bad fuel. Anyway, the above worked a treat and I'm lovin' my steady idle. Thanks!!
'83 240D
06-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(06-13-2012, 03:47 PM)tee51397 Wrote: So, the miss was bad fuel. Anyway, the above worked a treat and I'm lovin' my steady idle. Thanks!!

Your welcome. Thanks for posting how it worked out.
06-14-2012, 12:16 PM
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