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IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
willbhere4u Offline
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#51
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
The only information I have found out so far is that they have a mixture screw and it can be set rich to make it smoke? I'm curious if it would add more fuel that an 80's pump and what the pop pressure is on the old injectors and if it will work with newer injectors???
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
07-30-2009, 09:11 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#52
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Adjustments so far on my OM617 (These will not work on the OM60x):

Idle, Fine- N/A (Lost track yesterday trying to fix the idle)
Idle, Coarse- 4-1/4 CCW
Full Load- 4 CCW
Max RPM- 1/4 CW
Torque Control- 1 CW

Great power, but the last 1.5 turns caused idle quality and return to idle issues. The engine idles at 1000rpm unloaded and 650rpm in gear, takes about 5 seconds to return to 1000rpm when revved past 3000rpm (shifter moved to N).

16psi boost is good, but still a little low on the top-end.
(This post was last modified: 09-03-2009, 03:14 AM by ForcedInduction.)
09-03-2009, 03:13 AM
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winmutt Offline
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#53
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Last 1.5 turns on which screws?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
09-03-2009, 01:54 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#54
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Coarse idle and full load.
09-03-2009, 06:21 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#55
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
New adjustment totals (These will not work on the OM60x):

Idle, Fine- N/A (Lost track trying to fix the idle)
Idle, Coarse- 5-1/4 CCW
Idle stabilizer (2K)- 2 CCW
Full Load- 5 CCW
Max RPM- 1/4 CW
Torque Control- 1 CW

I adjusted the Idle stabilizer (2K) 2 turns CCW. The idle now stays at a steady 650rpm but its still extremely slow to return to idle when revved.

I need to get rid of this 3.46 diff, my speed maxes out too quick. Big Grin
09-07-2009, 11:22 PM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#56
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(09-07-2009, 11:22 PM)ForcedInduction Wrote: New adjustment totals (These will not work on the OM60x):

Idle, Fine- N/A (Lost track trying to fix the idle)
Idle, Coarse- 5-1/4 CCW
Idle stabilizer (2K)- 2 CCW
Full Load- 5 CCW
Max RPM- 1/4 CW
Torque Control- 1 CW

I adjusted the Idle stabilizer (2K) 2 turns CCW. The idle now stays at a steady 650rpm but its still extremely slow to return to idle when revved.

I need to get rid of this 3.46 diff, my speed maxes out too quick. Big Grin

How do you like these settings?

My idle has settled down since my last adjustments...on a side note:

I ended up putting the 265 nozzles back in, but I polished the mating surfaces of each injector with 2500 grit sanding cloth. It made a huge difference in the idle quality and my fuel mileage has actually improved.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
09-08-2009, 07:16 AM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#57
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(09-08-2009, 07:16 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote: How do you like these settings?
Power is fantastic. When I install the 4th boost stage to get up to 20psi I'll do a dyno and see where its at.

Next weekend I'll turn down the torque capsule to see if that fixes my idle return. I should have enough extra fuel by now that the TC adjustment won't make too much difference in power.

I've also decided to skip messing with the 6mm OM606 plungers and go straight to Myna when I can afford it. Putting the $800 towards "only" 20hp the 6mm pumpers bring wouldn't be worth it.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2009, 02:55 PM by ForcedInduction.)
09-08-2009, 02:51 PM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#58
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Make any progress?

I adjusted my pump today using the settings you made on the full load, coarse idle and idle stablizer today.

The power is diffinitely nice, BUT the idle was $hit, it would either not come down or would rise to 3000 rpms. I tweaked the idle stablizer screw and ended up with 4 turns ccw - that is the correct direction to move it, ask me how I know Rolleyes

I am getting to the point where I can pull the pump and make the adjustments and put it back in in about 20 minutes. I pulled the pump 5 times today!

I finally adjusted the torque capsule to the initial setting that it was when I received the pump. The idle is now stable, but the power seems to be back to where it was before I adjusted the full load and coarse idle screws.

I am going to readjust the torque capsule and use 1/4 turn increments until the idle bocomes undesireable.

These are my settings thus far:

Idle fine: No clue, too may turns to count

Idle coarse: 5.25 CCW

Full Load: 5.00 CCW

Max RPM : .5 CW

Idle Stablizer: 4 CCW
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2009, 08:04 PM by Rudolf_Diesel.)
09-13-2009, 05:51 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#59
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(09-13-2009, 05:51 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote: Make any progress?

Nope. This day has been one big pile of crap. Tried to get the intercooler going but I can't find my lower condenser hose fitting, I'll have to grab a junkyard one monday. Tried to pull the 5th (nailing) prechamber but the collar pegs rounded off. Then I was just about to adjust the torque capsule until I saw your post. So I'm in the "fuck it" mood now. I'm going to see a movie, relax and see how yours turns out. I can live with a slow idle return for a while with an automatic.
09-13-2009, 08:41 PM
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winmutt Offline
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#60
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I'll sell you the prechamber tool for a pump + some $$$? Or you can just borrow it for cost of shipping.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
09-14-2009, 02:45 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#61
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I got hold of a new set of 300SDL injectors that aren't heat blued like a few in my current set, I'm going to try them before attempting the prechamber again.
09-15-2009, 03:22 AM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#62
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I think I have reached the point of diminished returns trying to adjust the pump. Power was good when I cranked up the full load screw but the idle was Shit as stated before. I turned the Torque capsule back to original setting, but power was not as good.

Today I pulled the pump, again, and adjusted the full load as far as it would go, it F'ed up the idle as well. I pulled the pump, again (The neighbors must think my car is a POS, but who cares what they think anyway) , adjusted the full load again, but this time I left the back cover off.

I started the engine and played with the settings. I adjusted the full load screw CW about 2 turns, so that would put me at about 3 turns CCW. I adjusted the the coarse idle, fine idle and idle stabilizer as the engine was running , a little here, a little there. I am not sure how many turns CCW or CW were made but it was definitely a pain in the ass. I ended up adjusting the torque capsule 1.5 turns CW as well. Idle is a little slow to come down, but good enough for the girls I date. It does not change when in park or in gear.

I think I am done with the pump, the next step seems to be bigger elements. I am afraid I am going to damage the pump if I continue to mess with the settings.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#63
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(09-17-2009, 10:48 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote: Idle is a little slow to come down, but good enough for the girls I date.
...
I think I am done with the pump, the next step seems to be bigger elements. I am afraid I am going to damage the pump if I continue to mess with the settings.

That about what I've decided on as well. Right now I've moved on to setting max. boost to see whats needed to keep it cool.
09-18-2009, 01:12 AM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#64
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I am running about 17-18 pounds of boost, sometimes it will peak at 20-21. My EGT's have never gone to 1250*, I have been around 1150.

I must have a pretty good balance on the air/fuel ratio in a boost situation - I only see a little smoke moving from a stop if I don't ease into the go pedal. My boost starts to come on around 1600...
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
09-18-2009, 07:22 AM
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300SD81 Offline
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#65
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Anyone know if its possible to swap governors on pumps? Like one from the electronic 606 pump onto a MW or 5cyl M?
Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2009, 03:33 AM by 300SD81.)
11-23-2009, 03:23 AM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#66
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
No. Its an entirely different pump body and the housings don't even come close to lining up.
11-23-2009, 04:07 AM
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E300TSC Offline
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#67
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I may be wrong but I don't think there is a mechanical governor on the electronic pump. The only mechanical part is the timing advance device.
11-23-2009, 07:03 AM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#68
Star  RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I put my MW-pump back on today, sending my M on Monday to get the 7.5mm Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin Can't wait to get it back cause it really sucks now. I have to get my linkage dialed in again, but it has NO power right now or seems that way. I also broke the vacuum check valve that is inline from pump to booster, I should be able to superglue it.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2010, 07:47 PM by Rudolf_Diesel.)
01-09-2010, 07:43 PM
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willbhere4u Offline
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#69
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Take some vid's of it running and driving when you do get it on!!!!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
01-09-2010, 08:29 PM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#70
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
I fixed it, I fixed it!!!! It turns out some dumbass (who shall remain nameless) forgot to put the spring, washer and e-clip on the ALDA rod. Even though I don't have an ALDA I have it covered with a cap. I removed the cap and well what do you know no spring, I have been driving it for week - cursing and shifting like crap - no power, grandma in a rascal coulda smoked me.

After installing the spring it is all better, not as good as my M-pump, but decent enough. I was having trouble climbing hills and even getting on the freeway - as my dad would say "It couldn't pull a sick whore outta bed."
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
01-15-2010, 04:00 PM
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Sour Diesel Offline
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#71
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(09-03-2009, 03:13 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote: Adjustments so far on my OM617 (These will not work on the OM60x):

Idle, Fine- N/A (Lost track yesterday trying to fix the idle)
Idle, Coarse- 4-1/4 CCW
Full Load- 4 CCW
Max RPM- 1/4 CW
Torque Control- 1 CW

Great power, but the last 1.5 turns caused idle quality and return to idle issues. The engine idles at 1000rpm unloaded and 650rpm in gear, takes about 5 seconds to return to 1000rpm when revved past 3000rpm (shifter moved to N).

16psi boost is good, but still a little low on the top-end.

What turbo do you have the 16psi, will the stock turbo do more than 16psi with out blowing. Thanks and good luck
(09-18-2009, 07:22 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote: I am running about 17-18 pounds of boost, sometimes it will peak at 20-21. My EGT's have never gone to 1250*, I have been around 1150.

I must have a pretty good balance on the air/fuel ratio in a boost situation - I only see a little smoke moving from a stop if I don't ease into the go pedal. My boost starts to come on around 1600...

So you have some type of hybrid turbo. I have been wondering for some time why so many people just make smoke with out any power... more boost. Seems the Finns uses those big holset HX40 for a reason! LOL
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2010, 03:35 PM by Sour Diesel.)
02-05-2010, 03:30 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#72
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(02-05-2010, 03:30 PM)Sour Diesel Wrote: What turbo do you have the 16psi, will the stock turbo do more than 16psi with out blowing.

A GT2256V, that I set to 18psi after adding the intercooler. That turbo is gone now, the Holset is about ready to be mounted.
02-05-2010, 03:51 PM
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Rudolf_Diesel Offline
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#73
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Quote:So you have some type of hybrid turbo. I have been wondering for some time why so many people just make smoke with out any power... more boost. Seems the Finns uses those big holset HX40 for a reason! LOL

I have a T3/T4OE Chinese clone. I have been running it trouble free since July of last year. I am currently using my original MW-pump with the rack removed and some tuning, but it is no where near the output of the M-pump. I have yet to see past 15 PSI with the only change being the IP.

My new setup will have the M-pump with 7.5mm elements - it is in Maryland as I speak getting some quality bench time. I will be running an Eaton M90 super charger feeding a GT35.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2010, 09:29 PM by Rudolf_Diesel.)
02-05-2010, 09:28 PM
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jettmar Offline
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#74
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Hello. This is my first post here. Looks like a bunch of pretty knowledgeable guys posting here. I have some questions if someone can help out. First is I'm assuming that the M and the MW pump is for the 5 cylinder diesel right? I want to do the modifications spoken of in this thread to an OM603 engine. How much of the above text applies to that pump? I don't want to spring for a Myna pump as my car doesn't need to be that fast. I want to put a larger turbo or more likely add another to boost it without going overboard. So, lets start off with the first question.
Thanks in advance.
Derek
02-27-2010, 11:46 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#75
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(02-27-2010, 11:46 PM)Jettmar Wrote: How much of the above text applies to that pump?
Everything on the M-pump.

Quote:my car doesn't need to be that fast. I want to put a larger turbo or more likely add another to boost it without going overboard.
Thats not really needed. The stock turbo can handle all the power your engine can produce without a myna pump. Compounds aren't of much use to these cars unless you live in high altitude, there is a good-match single turbo for pretty much any power level you want even up to extreme 500hp+ systems.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2010, 07:22 AM by ForcedInduction.)
02-28-2010, 07:20 AM
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jettmar Offline
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#76
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
That's good news about the pump modifications applying to the om603. Thanks.
Now, here's my goal. I'd like your opinion on how to arrive at it. I don't really want to go in and change any internals of the engine. IP maxed out with the stock 5.5s is fine. I am assuming that in order to make full use of the additional fuel flow one would need to increase the turbo size/volume, larger fuel pump maybe. Are you implying that the small stock turbo (set to max psi or thereabouts) could make big number power?
Seems these Finns are putting these big turbos on because the extra boost is needed. Maybe they do need the extra large turbo because of other mods to their engines to get to the 500hp range. That's what I'm trying to figure out.
I'm more concerned with low end grunt. I know that is generally not a turbos forte. But my trade off would be more towards good low end and give up some top end.
I know of cases where the turbo or turbos are put under the back of the car to help keep under hood temps down. Plus an intercooler isn't needed because the long run to the intake is effectively the "intercooler".
I would prefer to leave the stock turbo intact and add another smallish one to add that additional boost that seems to me would be needed to keep up with a maxed out 603 pump.
I'm quite new to turbos and that is why I'm seeking some experienced advice so I don't waste a lot of time with something unnecessary.
So please could you help me to understand what combination of changes need to be made to the engine to maximize the modified IP without overfeeding it or starving it?
Best regards,
Derek
02-28-2010, 07:30 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#77
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(02-28-2010, 07:30 PM)Jettmar Wrote: IP maxed out with the stock 5.5s is fine.
...
Are you implying that the small stock turbo (set to max psi or thereabouts) could make big number power?
The stock pump can only deliver 175hp, the 50-trim T3 your engine can support that without being stressed.

Quote:Seems these Finns are putting these big turbos on because the extra boost is needed.
They are making 100-250% more than stock power levels, the 5.5mm injection pump can only supply 20% more than stock.

Quote:I'm more concerned with low end grunt. I know that is generally not a turbos forte. But my trade off would be more towards good low end and give up some top end.
Then you want to keep the stock turbo. Changing to a larger turbo will move the torque curve up in RPM because of its slower response.

Quote:I know of cases where the turbo or turbos are put under the back of the car to help keep under hood temps down.
No, those are just cheap power-adder kits for non-turbo engines. They are very inefficient.
They are like centrifugal superchargers; its for people that just want extra power for cheap, not people looking for serious or optimized performance.

Quote:Plus an intercooler isn't needed because the long run to the intake is effectively the "intercooler".
Same with the exhaust going to them, thats why they don't work well. The turbo should be as close to the exhaust ports as possible to harness as much heat, velocity and pressure/momentum energy as possible. With rear turbos you're just working with backpressure to drive it.

Quote:I would prefer to leave the stock turbo intact and add another smallish one to add that additional boost that seems to me would be needed to keep up with a maxed out 603 pump.
Sequential turbos are extremely difficult to make work properly without computer control. If you want response, you should look into a GT2359V or GT2559V VNT turbo.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2010, 12:43 AM by ForcedInduction.)
03-01-2010, 06:03 AM
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jettmar Offline
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#78
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Thanks Force!
What you suggest makes sense. I think what I'll do is maximize the 603 pump and jack up the stock turbo accordingly and see how I like that. I saw what another guy had to go through to put that other turbo on and I'm thinking that if I'm going to go through all that why not get the 7.5 elements and really build it right.
Which leads to the next question: It seems there are people in the states that can install the larger elements in these pumps. Does one need to drop 2 or 3 k for the Finn redo on the pump or can it be done, possibly without some of the bells and whistles, for less money and still get the power levels of the Finn pump?
One last question: I think that guy with the green turbo/supercharged 123 has gone on to building a radical 0m606 for that car. My question is why go through all the work to build the 617 motor when for a few dollars more you could start with a 606? 617 more sturdy motor? Just curious.

Thanks,
Derek
03-01-2010, 10:58 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#79
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(03-01-2010, 10:58 PM)Jettmar Wrote: Does one need to drop 2 or 3 k for the Finn redo on the pump or can it be done
Myna can do it for around $1500 after shipping and import taxes. Plus, they have experience and techniques in tuning these pumps for these specific engines. A rebuilder in the states wouldn't save much more money and they would basically be guessing at the settings.

Quote:One last question: I think that guy with the green turbo/supercharged 123 has gone on to building a radical 0m606 for that car. My question is why go through all the work to build the 617 motor when for a few dollars more you could start with a 606?
They went with a 606 later because they blew up the existing 617 first. Think of it as a learning experience.
03-02-2010, 12:49 AM
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tomnik Offline
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#80
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(03-02-2010, 12:49 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(03-01-2010, 10:58 PM)Jettmar Wrote: Does one need to drop 2 or 3 k for the Finn redo on the pump or can it be done
Myna can do it for around $1500 after shipping and import taxes. Plus, they have experience and techniques in tuning these pumps for these specific engines. A rebuilder in the states wouldn't save much more money and they would basically be guessing at the settings.

as long as Myna does keep too many secrets and knowing "their" 7mm elements with quantities that are just impossible (pure calculation) there is no reason to ship your IP to Finland.
The goal of the US bench guys is to build drivable IPs using real custom elements calculated for that. No miracle/secret adjustments just perfect set up. The results of the US done IPs will prove it.
Btw. "guessing" the settings is not necessary. This was discussed with old Bosch and AMG gurus.

Tom
03-02-2010, 01:21 AM
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#81
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(03-02-2010, 01:21 AM)tomnik Wrote: as long as Myna does keep too many secrets

lol, nobody can even confirm or deny if they grind the cam. Rolleyes
03-02-2010, 01:23 AM
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tomnik Offline
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#82
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
that's right.
But when they use n/a Ms just because the do not have alternatives for the after market 7mm elements and come up with funny quantities it's hard to believe that they touch the cam.
I would be open to have them do an IP with the M75 but no response.
And among us technical guys, the quality of the 7 mm after market kills all the good things they do. Grinding the cam down by >2mm ?? and what happens with the fuel supply bore in this case? Pre lift?
Maybe I am already too deep in this stuff to believe all that is written.
Anyway let's wait for the US results.

Tom
03-02-2010, 02:15 AM
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DervTuning Offline
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#83
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Indeed, that is the goal; more delivered fuel with perfect governor setup, using properly designed elements (with respect to the stroke and helix), made in Germany, for both M and MW pumps.

In addition, having the resources of both the AMG and Bosch gurus, only helps us to reach our common goal.



(03-02-2010, 01:21 AM)tomnik Wrote:
(03-02-2010, 12:49 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(03-01-2010, 10:58 PM)Jettmar Wrote: Does one need to drop 2 or 3 k for the Finn redo on the pump or can it be done
Myna can do it for around $1500 after shipping and import taxes. Plus, they have experience and techniques in tuning these pumps for these specific engines. A rebuilder in the states wouldn't save much more money and they would basically be guessing at the settings.

as long as Myna does keep too many secrets and knowing "their" 7mm elements with quantities that are just impossible (pure calculation) there is no reason to ship your IP to Finland.
The goal of the US bench guys is to build drivable IPs using real custom elements calculated for that. No miracle/secret adjustments just perfect set up. The results of the US done IPs will prove it.
Btw. "guessing" the settings is not necessary. This was discussed with old Bosch and AMG gurus.

Tom
03-03-2010, 01:20 AM
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jettmar Offline
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#84
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
What is a n/a M Tom refers to and does anyone know what the cost of 7 or 7.5mm elements are and can you get them in the states? Don't worry I'm not particularly interested in trying to do a pump myself.

Derek
03-03-2010, 06:00 PM
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tomnik Offline
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#85
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
normally aspirated IP type M.
Common replacement on 617 engines for the turbo IP type "MW".
Cost for 7mm: about 45 EUR (ask Myna for current price).
7.5mm: 60 EUR
Available in US? Yes.

Tom


(03-03-2010, 06:00 PM)Jettmar Wrote: What is a n/a M Tom refers to and does anyone know what the cost of 7 or 7.5mm elements are and can you get them in the states? Don't worry I'm not particularly interested in trying to do a pump myself.

Derek
03-04-2010, 01:49 AM
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#86
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
So I just removed the rack limiter on my car. Did it the exciting way by leaving the oil filter housing in place. I didn't have a spare filter housing gasket, so not much choice today. When the back cover finally came off, the rack limiter was loose. Not the lock nuts, the big 19mm (?) part was loose and I could wiggle it up and down and also side to side a little. I don't think that is normal; moving the throttle rod had zero affect on it being wobbly. Huh Either way, it's gone now. Someone had been in there before, the small lock nut was almost stripped in the threads. Originaly the top cover just got twisted around, till I got the limiter ready to fall in. Then I reviewed this thread and pulled off the alda and top plate. PULL OFF THE TOP PLATE!! It is way easier to get to the limiter if you plan to remove it. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A PEN MAGNET!! Thankfully, I found mine and was able to dig out the limiter assy. Took a few tries to get it, be patient. Finally, reassembly!

On a side note, *boing* is not the sound you want to hear when attempting to get the sh*t-clip back on the alda rod to hold the spring in place. Worse than that though, was the full 2 second pause before hearing the spring land somewhere in, on, or around the pile of cardboard boxes along the garage wall. I'll go digging for that spring tomorrow... right now it's late and I'm tired.

The rest of the reassembly was ok. The two engine block side screws for the back cover aren't horrible to get to with long screwdrivers (remember, oil filter housing in the way), but the bottom chassis side one was a mutha. Took just about 3 hours total from start to finish, that includes bathroom breaks, smoke breaks, and a little time looking for a lost spring. The engine idles fine, no leaks from the back cover. I'll sort out the alda in the morning and see about that spring. Will update after driving tomorrow.
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.

84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine! 
05-16-2010, 01:52 AM
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#87
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
For sure find that spring. Without it pushing up on the rod you'll get crap for power, even with the rack limiter removed. A pair of vice grips makes a good temporary solution if you discover the spring fell into a random black hole.

Make videos and have fun! Big Grin
05-16-2010, 08:32 AM
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#88
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Spent about and hour and a half this morning tearing apart the boxes in the garage to no avail. I did have the sh*t-clip still, and found the washer under my car! A quick check in the parts bin, turns out one of the spare springs for my rc buggy fits! So I put that in with the washer and clip and reinstalled my alda. TRIED to take it for a test drive, but after 15 feet on absolutely no power, I stopped and limped it right back into the garage. Turns out that spring is just a fraction of an inch too wide and interferes with the alda. I pulled the alda completely off (left the spring in) and test drove again, WOO HOO!! I have power again! No video yet, but my friend is going to let me borrow his hero-cam once he finds it again. The low end torque is much better now. I was actually able to spin tires on wet pavement again! In about 2 weeks I should have a day off to hit the dyno again and see where the Pumpkin is at for power. Smile
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.

84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine! 
05-17-2010, 12:00 AM
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#89
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
so the only thing you did was take the limiter out?

no other adjustments needed right away on the MW?
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(This post was last modified: 05-20-2010, 08:42 AM by 617.952.)
05-20-2010, 08:41 AM
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Yup. So far only the rack limiter removal has been done to the pump. Contemplating doing some more adjustments to it, but time is not on my side at the moment. It has much more low end torque now, at least thats what my butt-dyno tells me. I'm hoping to dyno again next weekend. If I get time, I'll see about messing with the pump some more though.
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.

84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine! 
05-20-2010, 10:29 AM
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BRABUS Offline
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#91
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
hello
Thanks for sharing info about adjusting these pumps.
When i have adjusted my M pump, how much oil(litres) and what kind of oil should i fill?

Best Regards
06-15-2010, 06:02 PM
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garage Offline
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#92
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
Can i remove the rack limiter on my om616?
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
07-31-2010, 06:22 PM
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#93
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(06-15-2010, 06:02 PM)BRABUS Wrote: hello
Thanks for sharing info about adjusting these pumps.
When i have adjusted my M pump, how much oil(litres) and what kind of oil should i fill?

Best Regards

Just put a little engine oil in the fill hole on the side of the pump so it is not dry, it will eventually get engine oil for lubrication.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
07-31-2010, 08:09 PM
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#94
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(07-31-2010, 06:22 PM)garage Wrote: Can i remove the rack limiter on my om616?

Yes, but it needs an additional air source to burn the fuel.
08-01-2010, 04:31 AM
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garage Offline
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#95
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-01-2010, 04:31 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(07-31-2010, 06:22 PM)garage Wrote: Can i remove the rack limiter on my om616?

Yes, but it needs an additional air source to burn the fuel.

Now would a freeflowing type air filter be adequate enough, or is a turbo needed?
Haha i assume turbo
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08-01-2010, 11:49 AM
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#96
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
You can adjust it and receive some benefits without a turbo. Just dont expect much (of anything).
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08-01-2010, 05:37 PM
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#97
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-01-2010, 11:49 AM)garage Wrote: Now would a freeflowing type air filter be adequate enough, or is a turbo needed?
Haha i assume turbo

I apologize for the interruption garage.
Back on track....

The stock system is already a free flowing cold air filter. There are gains to be had though. If you have a 75-80 the throat inside the filter housing can be widened to take advantage of the manifold's larger diameter (about 3/4" difference). If you have an 81-83 the whole intake manifold can be swapped for the better 75-80 version without the butterfly valve and sharp angles, though removing the butterfly valve alone can produce noticeable part throttle results.

Without a turbo, removing the rack limiter on a 616/617 is a wasted effort.
08-02-2010, 08:31 AM
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garage Offline
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#98
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-02-2010, 08:31 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(08-01-2010, 11:49 AM)garage Wrote: Now would a freeflowing type air filter be adequate enough, or is a turbo needed?
Haha i assume turbo

I apologize for the interruption garage.
Back on track....

The stock system is already a free flowing cold air filter. There are gains to be had though. If you have a 75-80 the throat inside the filter housing can be widened to take advantage of the manifold's larger diameter (about 3/4" difference). If you have an 81-83 the whole intake manifold can be swapped for the better 75-80 version without the butterfly valve and sharp angles, though removing the butterfly valve alone can produce noticeable part throttle results.

Without a turbo, removing the rack limiter on a 616/617 is a wasted effort.

I realize the stock system is "free" flowing and is a cold air intake, but its already in the trash.
And i have a '79..but what do you mean the throat of the filter housing?
I plan on very soon modifing a w115 N/A intake to fit the om616..im sure that would be the ideal choice correct?
Turbo will happen as soon as i have the means!!=]
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
08-02-2010, 11:03 AM
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Captain America Offline
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#99
RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-02-2010, 11:03 AM)garage Wrote: , but its already in the trash.

Awesome!

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

08-02-2010, 12:26 PM
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garage Offline
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RE: IP Full Load Adjustment Procedure for the MW and M pumps
(08-02-2010, 12:26 PM)Captain America Wrote:
(08-02-2010, 11:03 AM)garage Wrote: , but its already in the trash.

Awesome!

Well i mean...my intake is already welded up an modified for this new setup..i couldnt even use the old one if i wanted to...without more welding and cutting on the intake.
Besides theres plenty at the yards to go around..for now.
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
08-02-2010, 12:36 PM
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