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606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
HughF_UK Offline
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#1
606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Hi guys,

I'm thinking about turbo choices for my street use 606. I'm shooting for a slightly hazy (I have to get through an emissions test each year, and if it's smoky on the road, I might get pulled by the police) 300bhp. I have elements lined up, was planning a kkd manifold but unsure about going for an hx35 super, a GT2559v (renault vel satis, will this flow enough air?) or for some larger obscure vgt/vnt...

Should I also consider standard t3/t4 turbo's and standard ihi's, as fitted to turbo gassers?

Hugh
07-27-2010, 07:00 AM
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jeemu Offline
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#2
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Dont think HX35 super. That s not good for diesel.

Better choise is HX35 compressor 52 or 54mm and turbine 60mm and nro12 housing
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07-27-2010, 08:45 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#3
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
is this a laggy turbo for a 606? and is it available off-the-shelf or do I need to build it myself?
07-27-2010, 08:59 AM
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muuris Offline
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#4
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
You can find HX35 off the shelf.

GT2559v is okay if you drop your power level to ~250hp and don't rev the engine more than 4000rpm. Otherwise it's just way too small. The same thing with GT2259v, you'll get closer to 300 but still no high revs (which in my opinion is one of the best characteristics of OM605/6). CR engines are better when high revs are not needed, as they have higher efficiency.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2010, 11:40 AM by muuris.)
07-27-2010, 11:38 AM
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mk216v Offline
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#5
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Great info from the 606A camp! Any Garrett experience on a 606A?
1980 W460 300GD LWB 4spd manual, AKA "Radio Flyer"
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2010, 11:14 PM by mk216v.)
07-27-2010, 11:13 PM
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ForcedInduction Offline
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#6
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
A Holset HE341Ve would be perfect for your goal. 300hp, instant spool up and low smoke. As would a wastegated HY35 or HE341.

.jpg   Holset HE341V.jpg (Size: 76.42 KB / Downloads: 1,035)

A 2559 would be way too small for 300hp, even 250hp would be a little restrictive. For a Garrett VNT you should look towards a GT3063V or GT3571V from a Hino application.

.jpg   GT3063 KLV.jpg (Size: 16.31 KB / Downloads: 2,333)
.jpg   GT3571KLV.jpg (Size: 24.19 KB / Downloads: 2,048)

Avoid the Ford and GM application GT3771V and GT3788V turbos, the turbines are a very poor design.
07-28-2010, 05:58 AM
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anto Offline
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#7
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Hugh, if you dont mind me asking, what turbo is on the car atm?
07-28-2010, 09:55 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#8
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Your help is much appreciated forced... where might I locate a holset vnt as you described?

Anto, at the moment it's got the standard kkk k-something or other on there along with the standard manifold...
07-28-2010, 11:28 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#9
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Also, is the hy35 much different to the hx35?
07-28-2010, 12:47 PM
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#10
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-28-2010, 11:28 AM)HughF_UK Wrote: where might I locate a holset vnt as you described?
They show up on ebay occasionally, more frequently in the UK and germany versions.

(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)HughF_UK Wrote: Also, is the hy35 much different to the hx35?

Identical except for a 9cm2 single exhaust turbine housing instead of a 12cm2 divided housing.
07-28-2010, 03:39 PM
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jeemu Offline
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#11
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-28-2010, 03:39 PM)ForcedInduction Wrote: Identical except for a 9cm2 single exhaust turbine housing instead of a 12cm2 divided housing.
Hy35 what here sell is not identikcal on hx series. Hx turbine housing cant fit bolt on at Hy35. Different profile on wheels. Also compressor wheel has differend profile.
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07-28-2010, 03:49 PM
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#12
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
All wheel specs are the same here.
07-28-2010, 06:05 PM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#13
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
And I guess thst the smaller exhaust housing on the hy series provides faster spool at the expense of becoming a restriction at higher hp levels?
07-29-2010, 01:58 AM
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95e300dez Offline
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#14
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I have a hx35 on my 606 and it runs great the pump is not turned up yet and it gets 3lbs of boost by 2200rpm. I know these turbos are good for 350 hp and spool real nice on this motor. I would look for the hx35 with the 12 or 14 cm split scroll housing you will be real happy. Big Grin
07-29-2010, 12:24 PM
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mk216v Offline
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#15
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-28-2010, 03:39 PM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(07-28-2010, 11:28 AM)HughF_UK Wrote: where might I locate a holset vnt as you described?
They show up on ebay occasionally, more frequently in the UK and germany versions.

(07-28-2010, 12:47 PM)HughF_UK Wrote: Also, is the hy35 much different to the hx35?

Identical except for a 9cm2 single exhaust turbine housing instead of a 12cm2 divided housing.

Divided housing may come into play if you have a divided manifold...which most won't have, correct?
(07-29-2010, 12:24 PM)95e300dez Wrote: I have a hx35 on my 606 and it runs great the pump is not turned up yet and it gets 3lbs of boost by 2200rpm. I know these turbos are good for 350 hp and spool real nice on this motor. I would look for the hx35 with the 12 or 14 cm split scroll housing you will be real happy. Big Grin

Are you offering rides at all? I'd love to take a ride in a modded 606A as my G is asking for one. Tongue
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(This post was last modified: 07-29-2010, 01:14 PM by mk216v.)
07-29-2010, 12:43 PM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#16
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Isn't the kkd motorsport manifold a divided housing?
07-29-2010, 03:11 PM
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Alastair E Offline
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#17
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-29-2010, 03:11 PM)HughF_UK Wrote: Isn't the kkd motorsport manifold a divided housing?

It looks to be...

--Its custom built for your application,--Maybe worth contacting them to match a turbo and manifold for your HP requirements....
--When the time comes, Its what I'll prolly do--Unless you do it first!Wink

BTW, Looks like Ive got a running OM.606, --Complete with rusty car with no wheels....Big Grin
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07-29-2010, 04:23 PM
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95e300dez Offline
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#18
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I would totally give free rides to let people feel the difference.The only problem is I just moved to Meridian ID and will be staying here so if you are ever in the Boise area I will give a ride.
07-29-2010, 05:42 PM
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mk216v Offline
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#19
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-29-2010, 05:42 PM)95e300dez Wrote: I would totally give free rides to let people feel the difference.The only problem is I just moved to Meridian ID and will be staying here so if you are ever in the Boise area I will give a ride.

Doh!! Sad

Thanks anyways.
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07-29-2010, 05:50 PM
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anto Offline
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#20
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-28-2010, 11:28 AM)HughF_UK Wrote: Your help is much appreciated forced... where might I locate a holset vnt as you described?

Anto, at the moment it's got the standard kkk k-something or other on there along with the standard manifold...


It wouldnt happen to be a k14-2 by any chance?
If it was it would be a good upgrade for my project if you were selling it?
07-30-2010, 08:26 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#21
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
A mate might have first dibbs on it for his t4 2.5 to see if we can get something bigger than the volvo 850tdi turbo he's running at the moment. If it's not big enough, it's yours...

Alastair, Nice work on the 606, comes attached to a rotten w210 I guess... Any word from tomnik on pump bench procedures, my bosch centre are really keen!
07-30-2010, 02:53 PM
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anto Offline
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#22
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(07-30-2010, 02:53 PM)HughF_UK Wrote: A mate might have first dibbs on it for his t4 2.5 to see if we can get something bigger than the volvo 850tdi turbo he's running at the moment. If it's not big enough, it's yours...

Alastair, Nice work on the 606, comes attached to a rotten w210 I guess... Any word from tomnik on pump bench procedures, my bosch centre are really keen!


No problem chap, let me know if you are getting rid of it....
08-04-2010, 09:54 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#23
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
So I've been doing some more research around this... The HY35 seems very similar to the HX35 super from KKD, 9cm housing vs 8cm housing...

What are the other differences? And would this <10cm housing give me egt issues at higher revs? Would I be better going for a 12cm housing hx35?

Confused!

Hugh
08-17-2010, 04:17 PM
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Alastair E Offline
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#24
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
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08-17-2010, 04:36 PM
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jeemu Offline
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#25
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I have say this before. No HY35 or Hx35super on ST MB, but if you want to go ass forward on the three, so go ahead.
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08-17-2010, 04:56 PM
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Alastair E Offline
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#26
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-17-2010, 04:56 PM)jeemu Wrote: I have say this before. No HY35 or Hx35super on ST MB, but if you want to go ass forward on the three, so go ahead.

OK, ok....

Not sure exactly what you mean--but can guess....Whats 'ST MB'?

We are looking for a straightforward turbo that will give Good Drivability--This is more important than All Out Power....
--Personally I cannot afford VNT type....

Summit that builds boost around 2000, maybe a little higher and gives good power up to 5,500-6,000 max power around 300-350BHP...
--300-350 will be fine for what I want, guessing HughF would be happy with that too....
So, what do you reckon would do this turbo wise? HX40 is a Very Big machine, so by its nature is going to be 'laggy' in comparison to a smaller machine--Especially at Part Throttle...
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08-18-2010, 04:58 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#27
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I was going to say the same thing alastair... I've got to keep my MOT man happy LOL!
08-18-2010, 05:10 AM
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#28
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Yes, an HX40 won't start to boost under normal (non flogging) driving until well past 3000rpm.

Get a hold of 95e300dez, he drives a 606 with an HX35 and would know better than others what it drives like.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/i-did-it-95-turbo-606-t-1240.html
08-18-2010, 05:11 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#29
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I was looking at the same one Alastair...
08-18-2010, 06:31 AM
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jeemu Offline
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#30
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-18-2010, 04:58 AM)Alastair E Wrote:
(08-17-2010, 04:56 PM)jeemu Wrote: I have say this before. No HY35 or Hx35super on ST MB, but if you want to go ass forward on the three, so go ahead.

OK, ok....

Not sure exactly what you mean--but can guess....Whats 'ST MB'?

We are looking for a straightforward turbo that will give Good Drivability--This is more important than All Out Power....
--Personally I cannot afford VNT type....

Summit that builds boost around 2000, maybe a little higher and gives good power up to 5,500-6,000 max power around 300-350BHP...
--300-350 will be fine for what I want, guessing HughF would be happy with that too....
So, what do you reckon would do this turbo wise? HX40 is a Very Big machine, so by its nature is going to be 'laggy' in comparison to a smaller machine--Especially at Part Throttle...
ST MB = Super Turbo Mercedes Benz.
My choise of turbo that use is HX35 12 turbinehousing.

Both hy35 and super hx35 is good, but they ruined it that ridiculous small turbinehousing.

I have tested HY35 on my 605 with 7mm ip, and that was not good. Back pressure is a lot more than boost and i mean a lot. What to expect a turbo what has so tiny turbine Smile
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(This post was last modified: 08-18-2010, 11:39 AM by jeemu.)
08-18-2010, 11:34 AM
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Alastair E Offline
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#31
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Hmmm.....

Ah, yes--ST MB, Should have guessed that one really!

So, what do you reckon to this one?--

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kkdmotorsport.com%2Fkauppa.php%3Ft%3D1276068696%26k%3D1270835105&sl=auto&tl=en

It has 12cm Turbine-housing, and 'super' inductor...

KKD seem to have quite a few HX35 with 12cm housings, Which is best for us.....?
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08-18-2010, 12:52 PM
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jeemu Offline
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#32
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-18-2010, 12:52 PM)Alastair E Wrote: Hmmm.....

Ah, yes--ST MB, Should have guessed that one really!

So, what do you reckon to this one?--

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kkdmotorsport.com%2Fkauppa.php%3Ft%3D1276068696%26k%3D1270835105&sl=auto&tl=en

It has 12cm Turbine-housing, and 'super' inductor...

KKD seem to have quite a few HX35 with 12cm housings, Which is best for us.....?
That is super hx35.

This is better
Holset Holset
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08-18-2010, 01:52 PM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#33
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Looks like an hx35 with 12cm2 housing is what the UK contingent need then Alastair!?

Not much of a group buy is it, just the two of us Sad

However, I have a feeling that is the leyland roadrunner/daf45 cummins 12v turbo?
08-18-2010, 02:57 PM
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#34
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-18-2010, 02:57 PM)HughF_UK Wrote: Looks like an hx35 with 12cm2 housing is what the UK contingent need then Alastair!?

Not much of a group buy is it, just the two of us Sad

However, I have a feeling that is the leyland roadrunner/daf45 cummins 12v turbo?
That hx35 what is link i send has same profil compressor wheel as super hx. I think at not use in Leyland.
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(This post was last modified: 08-18-2010, 05:41 PM by jeemu.)
08-18-2010, 03:08 PM
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#35
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
HX35 turbos are cheap here and shipping to the UK would be about $85.
08-18-2010, 04:30 PM
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#36
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Whilst browsing on the fleagay, I came across this monstrous thing--

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GT45-T4-TURBOCHARGER-TURBO-CHARGER-/290465348457?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM

What you guys reckon the lag would be on That!

The intended market for this thing was some 'Ricer' toyota/lexux gasser thing, but interestingly 2997cc, 6 cylinder 24 valve, so similar in some ways to the 606--but Really quite different!
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08-19-2010, 06:43 AM
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#37
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
08-19-2010, 06:51 AM
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Alastair E Offline
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#38
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Guess thats like saying Arsnic is better than Cyanide as a poison!
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08-19-2010, 07:10 AM
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HughF_UK Offline
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#39
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
I've got an HX50 sitting at home, I could always try that and see what MOT man says about my off-boost smoke Smile
08-19-2010, 08:08 AM
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#40
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
50 is very large, brother has a hx40 on his aan audi 5cyl.
08-19-2010, 08:12 AM
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#41
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Yeah the thing is the size of a dustbin!
08-19-2010, 09:57 AM
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#42
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-19-2010, 06:51 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote: Better than an HT80.

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/1864218497.html

Yeah! That's right by my house!

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

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08-19-2010, 02:48 PM
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#43
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Seems like a sticky on turbo sizes and boost characteristics for different engines would be helpful.
08-19-2010, 09:53 PM
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#44
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-19-2010, 09:53 PM)meareweird Wrote: Seems like a sticky on turbo sizes and boost characteristics for different engines would be helpful.

2nd, 3rd, 4th that motion!

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

08-20-2010, 12:38 AM
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#45
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-19-2010, 09:53 PM)meareweird Wrote: Seems like a sticky on turbo sizes and boost characteristics for different engines would be helpful.

That would be nearly impossible. As jeemu has proven, "boost characteristics" is very subjective from person to person.
08-20-2010, 07:20 AM
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#46
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
Low end torque, High end power, or middle of the road

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

08-20-2010, 11:14 AM
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#47
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-20-2010, 11:14 AM)Captain America Wrote: Low end torque, High end power, or middle of the road

All three, supercharger before or after the turbo, above or below 30psi, minimum vane position setting, pneumatic or electronic vane controller type, internal or external wastegate, VNT with wastegate, intercooled or non, muffled or straight exhaust system with or without catalytic converter, manual or auto trans, nitrous, propane, water injection with or without methanol added, 5.5 6 7 7.5 8 or 10mm pump elements, ALDA or none, EGR, intake butterfly, etc etc.

There are hundreds of conditions that can significantly affect how the turbo plays, one persons setup has little beyond generics that translates to the next person. Even 1/4 turn on a VNT's vane stop screw can completely change how the turbo reacts in a number of different conditions.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2010, 03:05 PM by ForcedInduction.)
08-20-2010, 04:20 PM
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Captain America Offline
Boostin' & Roostin'
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Posts: 2,199
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Riverside, California USA
#48
RE: 606 turbo choices for UK fast street use
(08-20-2010, 04:20 PM)ForcedInduction Wrote:
(08-20-2010, 11:14 AM)Captain America Wrote: Low end torque, High end power, or middle of the road

All three, supercharger before or after the turbo, above or below 30psi, minimum vane position setting, pneumatic or electronic vane controller type, internal or external wastegate, VNT with wastegate, intercooled or non, muffled or straight exhaust system with or without catalytic converter, manual or auto trans, nitrous, propane, water injection with or without methanol added, 5.5 7 7.5 8 or 10mm pump elements, ALDA or none, EGR, intake butterfly, etc etc.

There are hundreds of conditions that can significantly affect how the turbo plays, one persons setup has little beyond generics that translates to the next person. Even 1/4 turn on a VNT's vane stop screw can completely change how the turbo reacts in a number of different conditions.

Yes!

1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag

AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....

08-20-2010, 07:37 PM
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