Mild performance turbo upgrade options...
Mild performance turbo upgrade options...
Paul
So it seems that theres lots of talk on here and other forums about upgrading to VNT's and large holsets and the like, but not much talk of turbos that will go in place of the stock T3 and boost performance without requiring a $2000+ injector pump upgrade. Basically what I'm thinking about is a turbo that will spool sooner than the T3 and still keep the flow up top that the T3 has, not a terribly hard task for a newer turbo, as turbo technology has advanced quite a bit since the T3 :lol:. Has anyone tried anything like this? It seems to me that my 82 300td would take off much better if i could simply make boost sooner than stock, making it much more drivable around town. I have a TD04HL 16T from a volvo that i may attempt this with, along with an intercooler, but just making sure there isn't anything i'm missing before i try it, I'm new to the whole diesel performance thing, but i have lots of experience with Saab turbos, so I'm not completely unfamiliar, just to give you some background.
Paul
The only bolt in options are the stock T3 and K26 turbos. The K26 will spool faster but it can be restrictive on the high end and it turns into a heat pump at 15psi. Everything else will require fabrication to mate with the intake manifold and exhaust downpipe.
The Holset HX30 would be a good option and the HY35 will flow all you could ever need without a Myna pump and still be drivable.
Turbo choice is a balance of spool time and flow capacity. Except for VNT turbos, you can have a quick spooling turbo that is restrictive on the high end, a good flowing turbo that has lots of lag or something in between. Its up to you what balance you can live with.
ForcedInduction
03-21-2008, 05:41 AM
#2
A TD04HL 16T is too small to use even with stock settings, it can only flow 400-450cfm which is less than the stock T3. http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm
The only bolt in options are the stock T3 and K26 turbos. The K26 will spool faster but it can be restrictive on the high end and it turns into a heat pump at 15psi. Everything else will require fabrication to mate with the intake manifold and exhaust downpipe.
The Holset HX30 would be a good option and the HY35 will flow all you could ever need without a Myna pump and still be drivable.
Turbo choice is a balance of spool time and flow capacity. Except for VNT turbos, you can have a quick spooling turbo that is restrictive on the high end, a good flowing turbo that has lots of lag or something in between. Its up to you what balance you can live with.
The VNTs that are being used (other than brandon's) dont flow much more air than the stock turbo, but will give better performance because they can produce boost much faster than a conventional turbo. If you want the most performance with the stock pump a small VNT is the way to go. The problem of course is how to effectively control them.
Take a look at the Holset HX30. There is one on ebay now, I posted a link in the ebay thread in the parts section. They are hard to find, but pop up on ebay every so often. It will bolt in place of the stock turbo, but give a bit better performance. You may need to come up with a new downpipe or transition piece between the HX30 and stock down pipe though.
The VNTs that are being used (other than brandon's) dont flow much more air than the stock turbo, but will give better performance because they can produce boost much faster than a conventional turbo. If you want the most performance with the stock pump a small VNT is the way to go. The problem of course is how to effectively control them.
As I have found out it won't be a drop in replacement however. It needs to have the turbine scroll and the compressor housing reclocked. The oil feed and return won't quite line up ( I made mine fit :roll: ) . You will also have to come up with a way to get the wastegate actuator to be in the right place. The last thing to over come is it has an offset that creates a gap between the compressor outlet and the manifold inlet spacer (I used a piece of conduit adapter and a lot of RTV) .
I upgraded to a turbo off of a 300SDL. It is a newer design with than the TAO301. It has a 50 trim compressor and the turbine is slightly smaller. The smaller turbine allows it to spool a bit sooner and quicker. The 50 trim compressor wheel gives you more top end efficiency than the 45 trim wheel. Basically it gives you a wider range of boost.
As I have found out it won't be a drop in replacement however. It needs to have the turbine scroll and the compressor housing reclocked. The oil feed and return won't quite line up ( I made mine fit :roll: ) . You will also have to come up with a way to get the wastegate actuator to be in the right place. The last thing to over come is it has an offset that creates a gap between the compressor outlet and the manifold inlet spacer (I used a piece of conduit adapter and a lot of RTV) .
bgkast Take a look at the Holset HX30. There is one on ebay now, I posted a link in the ebay thread in the parts section. They are hard to find, but pop up on ebay every so often. It will bolt in place of the stock turbo, but give a bit better performance. You may need to come up with a new downpipe or transition piece between the HX30 and stock down pipe though.
The VNTs that are being used (other than brandon's) dont flow much more air than the stock turbo, but will give better performance because they can produce boost much faster than a conventional turbo. If you want the most performance with the stock pump a small VNT is the way to go. The problem of course is how to effectively control them.
i've seen those hx30s, and they do look like a nice unit, basically a modernized T3 it seems, i've been considering one for my saab actually. I think i may try out the TD04 at some point, just cause i have it, and it bolts to the manifold. I know it was a definite upgrade over the T3 that my Saab had, similar spool (if not a bit sooner) with more top end flow, odd that the specs say it flows less air. The VNT's do seem like theyre a good choice, but like you said, control is an issue, and i dont care to mess with it honestly as this car is supposed to be my reliable car :lol: .
Paul
bgkast Take a look at the Holset HX30. There is one on ebay now, I posted a link in the ebay thread in the parts section. They are hard to find, but pop up on ebay every so often. It will bolt in place of the stock turbo, but give a bit better performance. You may need to come up with a new downpipe or transition piece between the HX30 and stock down pipe though.
The VNTs that are being used (other than brandon's) dont flow much more air than the stock turbo, but will give better performance because they can produce boost much faster than a conventional turbo. If you want the most performance with the stock pump a small VNT is the way to go. The problem of course is how to effectively control them.
i've seen those hx30s, and they do look like a nice unit, basically a modernized T3 it seems, i've been considering one for my saab actually. I think i may try out the TD04 at some point, just cause i have it, and it bolts to the manifold. I know it was a definite upgrade over the T3 that my Saab had, similar spool (if not a bit sooner) with more top end flow, odd that the specs say it flows less air. The VNT's do seem like theyre a good choice, but like you said, control is an issue, and i dont care to mess with it honestly as this car is supposed to be my reliable car :lol: .
Paul
hock: ). You need to do one thing at a time- and the first thing is the EGT gauge. William
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
I've got a VNT- it's in the garage in a box. Instead I've spent my time on the other parts that can be changed to increase power. An IC, fiddle with the IP, Up the boost in the stock turbo, change the injectors, process coat the exhaust manifold, install gauges. FI has got a great setup, but I dont know how easily others could recreate it on their cars. (Geez maybe my car too... hock: ). You need to do one thing at a time- and the first thing is the EGT gauge.
William
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
It's been almost three years since I was regularily active on these Mercedes forums, and the performance topic was just being scratched at the time. It's awesome to see how far everyone has gone with their projects and the technical level that you guys are at with it now. I'm a bit behind with some of the abbreviations and complexities of vacuum, pressures, etc., so if you'all don't mind a dumb question now and again I will get up to speed in no time. I have two 300SD's at home and plan to tie into them when time alows in the near future. Long live SUPERTURBO's!!!!!
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@
Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
Telecommbrkr
03-28-2008, 10:56 PM #7I am wondering about a VNT that I think forced_induction mentioned on one of the forums, it was from the Ford Powerstroke. What are the specs on this unit, and the feasability of mating it to the 617 or the 60x engines? What kind of hp would it be able to support?
It's been almost three years since I was regularily active on these Mercedes forums, and the performance topic was just being scratched at the time. It's awesome to see how far everyone has gone with their projects and the technical level that you guys are at with it now. I'm a bit behind with some of the abbreviations and complexities of vacuum, pressures, etc., so if you'all don't mind a dumb question now and again I will get up to speed in no time. I have two 300SD's at home and plan to tie into them when time alows in the near future. Long live SUPERTURBO's!!!!!
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@ Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
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You could probably remove the electronic actuator and use mechanical contol of the vanes too.
Welcome! If you are looking to use a large VNT from a diesel truck I would look at the Holset HE341VE. It has a T3 flange and will bolt on to the 617 easily. The trick is controlling the electronic actuator. Off the top of my head it should be good for 400+ HP if you can get enough fuel. (think Myna injection pump)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-Cummins-VGT-Turbo-Low-Miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ013QQitemZ230235879293QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-C ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
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You could probably remove the electronic actuator and use mechanical contol of the vanes too.
(03-28-2008, 11:56 PM)bgkast Welcome! If you are looking to use a large VNT from a diesel truck I would look at the Holset HE341VE. It has a T3 flange and will bolt on to the 617 easily. The trick is controlling the electronic actuator. Off the top of my head it should be good for 400+ HP if you can get enough fuel. (think Myna injection pump)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-Cummins-VGT-Turbo-Low-Miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ013QQitemZ230235879293QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-C ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-TURBO-HOLSET-USED-ITEM-613_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ009QQitemZ190209409187QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-TU ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
You could probably remove the electronic actuator and use mechanical contol of the vanes too.
Has anyone actually used an he341ve on an om617, with or without a superpump? I think he200vg is the proper turbo for the stock pump, but the 341ve might be a nice bolt on with a bigger pump - if it doesn't hit the strut tower or fender.
atypicalguy
04-22-2015, 09:33 PM #9(03-28-2008, 11:56 PM)bgkast Welcome! If you are looking to use a large VNT from a diesel truck I would look at the Holset HE341VE. It has a T3 flange and will bolt on to the 617 easily. The trick is controlling the electronic actuator. Off the top of my head it should be good for 400+ HP if you can get enough fuel. (think Myna injection pump)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-Cummins-VGT-Turbo-Low-Miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ013QQitemZ230235879293QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holset-C ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-TURBO-HOLSET-USED-ITEM-613_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ009QQitemZ190209409187QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-TU ... enameZWDVW</a><!-- m -->
You could probably remove the electronic actuator and use mechanical contol of the vanes too.
Has anyone actually used an he341ve on an om617, with or without a superpump? I think he200vg is the proper turbo for the stock pump, but the 341ve might be a nice bolt on with a bigger pump - if it doesn't hit the strut tower or fender.
I'm thinking this might actually be a simple, bolt-on, driveable way to upgrade the turbo for anyone with a superpump.
atypicalguy
04-22-2015, 09:56 PM #10Oh I guess om617 had an he341ve on a 617, but it looks like the compressor side was assembled incorrectly and it never worked. So did it not work because it was ruined, or because it was too big for the motor?
I'm thinking this might actually be a simple, bolt-on, driveable way to upgrade the turbo for anyone with a superpump.
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