240D Turbo Project - Starts, Promptly Dies
240D Turbo Project - Starts, Promptly Dies
Finally (this project has been going on for almost a year now) got around to bolting everything on the 240D today to make it a turbo - a'la - Graminal, Forced Induction, and Bio240D.
Everything went together with no real issues. The car was running fine before I started - I had already modified the injection pump and driven it that way for ~500 miles - no issues. I modified the throttle actuating assembly on Saturday and that worked fine. I did not touch the fuel system at all today.
The car starts, seems OK, and within 3-4 seconds, dies. It has oil pressure. I checked for vacuum leaks in the intake manifold - realized that I hadn't hooked up my boost gauge yet, and plugged that. No change. I had a vacuum (boost) tube hooked up to the ADA - thought there was a slight chance that was the issue - unhooked that (plugged tube), no change. There was a tube that used to go to the top of the air cleaner that now doesn't have a home (my guess is that goes to the vacuum pump - but totally guessing on that) - thought that might be an issue - plugged it, no change. There are a couple of threaded fittings in the manifold (which is old style - like Forced Induction's) that may be the culprits - if I need to be looking for vacuum issues, I'll plumbing tape those tomorrow.
I'm by no means a diesel expert. Should I be looking for a fuel issue, or a vacuum leak issue? My guess is a vacuum leak issue, as the fuel system was fine when I drove it in this morning, and multiple people are driving around the same setup I have with no issues.
Thanks to everyone in advance for taking a look at this. Can't wait to see how this thing drives with the small turbo on it.
Dan
Gentlemen,
Finally (this project has been going on for almost a year now) got around to bolting everything on the 240D today to make it a turbo - a'la - Graminal, Forced Induction, and Bio240D.
Everything went together with no real issues. The car was running fine before I started - I had already modified the injection pump and driven it that way for ~500 miles - no issues. I modified the throttle actuating assembly on Saturday and that worked fine. I did not touch the fuel system at all today.
The car starts, seems OK, and within 3-4 seconds, dies. It has oil pressure. I checked for vacuum leaks in the intake manifold - realized that I hadn't hooked up my boost gauge yet, and plugged that. No change. I had a vacuum (boost) tube hooked up to the ADA - thought there was a slight chance that was the issue - unhooked that (plugged tube), no change. There was a tube that used to go to the top of the air cleaner that now doesn't have a home (my guess is that goes to the vacuum pump - but totally guessing on that) - thought that might be an issue - plugged it, no change. There are a couple of threaded fittings in the manifold (which is old style - like Forced Induction's) that may be the culprits - if I need to be looking for vacuum issues, I'll plumbing tape those tomorrow.
I'm by no means a diesel expert. Should I be looking for a fuel issue, or a vacuum leak issue? My guess is a vacuum leak issue, as the fuel system was fine when I drove it in this morning, and multiple people are driving around the same setup I have with no issues.
Thanks to everyone in advance for taking a look at this. Can't wait to see how this thing drives with the small turbo on it.
Dan
vacuum is also a fuel issue (ie vacuum not directly needed), disconnect the vacuum fuel shutoff and it'll keep going & going... very easy to cross vacuum off the list (and a leak wouldn't cause it to shut down, it would cause it to keep going even with the key off).
fuel - air - heat, the diesel ingredients. My bet is fuel, check tank vent, filters, air getting into system, etc.
vacuum is also a fuel issue (ie vacuum not directly needed), disconnect the vacuum fuel shutoff and it'll keep going & going... very easy to cross vacuum off the list (and a leak wouldn't cause it to shut down, it would cause it to keep going even with the key off).
but check your vacuum lines by the injection pump also make sure air can get in the turbo! after I did my set up I used a shop rag for an air filter and it wouldn't let enough air in to run!
What did you use for a turbo and manifold?
Take some pics! http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/240-...-1055.html
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-21-2010, 10:30 PM #3You can run these engine with no manifolds vacuum to the intake shouldn't change any thing essentially there is none!
but check your vacuum lines by the injection pump also make sure air can get in the turbo! after I did my set up I used a shop rag for an air filter and it wouldn't let enough air in to run!
What did you use for a turbo and manifold?
Take some pics! http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/240-...-1055.html
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
ForcedInduction
06-22-2010, 04:56 AM
#4
Pull the vacuum hose off the shutoff actuator. It sounds like your keyswitch valve has failed, causing the engine to kill itself as the vacuum pump builds up vacuum.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
06-22-2010, 06:08 AM #5I had a similar problem when I stuffed a rag into the turbo to protect the vanes and forgot to remove it. It would start and then die, if I would rev the motor it sounded like it was running on two cylinders.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-22-2010, 04:55 PM #6that's exactly what happen to me!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
Looked at it again today - did not get it solved. Attempted solutions:
1. Pulled the vacuum hose off the shutoff initiator - still started and then failed.
2. Placed the hose that was in the hold air cleaner container into the new K&N filter so that the vacuum pump would have some vacuum on it when running - still started and then failed.
3. Went through the entire process of changing the fuel filters and clearing the injection pump, multiple times - including replacing the aluminum crush washers in case they were the source of the perceived air leak in the fuel system - still started and then failed.
4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
5. Tried running the car with the turbo unhooked - let air flow freely into the intake manifold - still started and then failed.
Its possible that in trying all these solutions I should retry starting the car with the open intake manifold to see if that helps. It is also possible that some bolts that I used to plug holes in the Intake Manifold are restricting airflow into the cylinders - but I can't imagine that would be a problem so bad as to cause this issue.
Anyone have any opinions about the oil flying up the dipstick? The turbo is being supplied oil off the filter just like what everyone else is doing . . . then out to the oil pan . . . just like everyone else is doing.
At this point I am thoroughly confused - but I am confident that the fuel system is supplying fuel, the vacuum lines in / around the shutoff initiator are right, and that I have removed the shutoff initiator from the equation as an issue.
Given everyone's experience, I think I need to spend time tomorrow looking at the intake track again to see if there are big issues with air.
Also curious to see if anyone has opinions about the oil making its way out of the dipstick (on startup - which then promptly shuts down).
Gents,
Looked at it again today - did not get it solved. Attempted solutions:
1. Pulled the vacuum hose off the shutoff initiator - still started and then failed.
2. Placed the hose that was in the hold air cleaner container into the new K&N filter so that the vacuum pump would have some vacuum on it when running - still started and then failed.
3. Went through the entire process of changing the fuel filters and clearing the injection pump, multiple times - including replacing the aluminum crush washers in case they were the source of the perceived air leak in the fuel system - still started and then failed.
4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
5. Tried running the car with the turbo unhooked - let air flow freely into the intake manifold - still started and then failed.
Its possible that in trying all these solutions I should retry starting the car with the open intake manifold to see if that helps. It is also possible that some bolts that I used to plug holes in the Intake Manifold are restricting airflow into the cylinders - but I can't imagine that would be a problem so bad as to cause this issue.
Anyone have any opinions about the oil flying up the dipstick? The turbo is being supplied oil off the filter just like what everyone else is doing . . . then out to the oil pan . . . just like everyone else is doing.
At this point I am thoroughly confused - but I am confident that the fuel system is supplying fuel, the vacuum lines in / around the shutoff initiator are right, and that I have removed the shutoff initiator from the equation as an issue.
Given everyone's experience, I think I need to spend time tomorrow looking at the intake track again to see if there are big issues with air.
Also curious to see if anyone has opinions about the oil making its way out of the dipstick (on startup - which then promptly shuts down).
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-22-2010, 11:05 PM #8Post some pics of you IP and oil filter housing? maybe we can see something you missed???
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
ForcedInduction
06-23-2010, 09:25 AM
#10
(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
Ah - I have it totally restricted (I will dime myself out with this photo). I also now have video - but i will save that in hopes that it is unnecessary.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
Thanks for everyone's help,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 11:10 AM)m002922 Ah - I have it totally restricted (I will dime myself out with this photo). I also now have video - but i will save that in hopes that it is unnecessary.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
Forced Induction wins the prize - I vented the crank case and the car started right up and kept running. The car is now at the exhaust shop getting a 2.5" exhaust. Pictures forthcoming.
Thanks for everyone's help,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 11:10 AM)m002922 Ah - I have it totally restricted (I will dime myself out with this photo). I also now have video - but i will save that in hopes that it is unnecessary.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Thanks,
Dan
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-23-2010, 05:57 PM #13glad to hear it's running!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
Any opinions, appreciated.
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
Regarding the valvecover breather, can I just input that right into the K&N filter that I have going into the turbo? I'm concerned with the amount of oil that is making its way out of the valvecover - it is OK to have some of that make its way into the Turbo Intake?
Any opinions, appreciated.
(06-23-2010, 09:25 AM)ForcedInduction(06-22-2010, 09:56 PM)m002922 4. Noticed that after the vehicle shut down there was a "hissing noise" near the spin on fuel filter - figured there was some sort of leak, which is what led to number 3 (above). Then realized that the noise was actually air and oil leaving the vent hole of the dipstick holder . . . put about 2 quarts more oil in the system (to account for the new plumbing) . . . that got rid of the really loud "hissing noise" on shut down (however, some oil is still being driven up the dipstick) . . . and made me wonder if there was ever anything wrong with the fuel supply system (number 3, above) - still started and then failed.
That implies a restricted CCV system. The air pressure buildup will push against the shutoff actuator and shut it off the same as vacuum.
Remove the tube from the valvecover breather and try running it again. Don't forget that you need to use a hose of 3/8" ID bare minimum, 5/8" or larger is ideal, and it has to be connected before the turbo inlet or open to the atmosphere.
ForcedInduction
06-26-2010, 12:31 PM
#15
The oil is far better for the engine than all the dirt the K&N lets in.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-26-2010, 09:53 PM #17It runs on oil!!! OM = oil motor in the engine code OM617
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
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