engine swap begins
engine swap begins
05-10-2010, 12:39 AM
#1
Mike
Greetings, I am swapping out a m115 2.3 ltr. gas engine from my MB 308 camper van and replacing in with a 617 non-turbo engine. I bought the engine a while back it has 108,000 miles on it. Unfortunately, a turbo 617 would have been preferred but would be difficult to shoe horn into the engine bay. The current challenge, besides ensuring the 617 engine in proper shape is the engine mounting process. The 2.3 engine (four cylinder) is about 3 inches shorter than the five cylinder so the cradle that holds the engine may have to be relocated a bit further up on the frame, not sure yet. The other challenge is the intake manifold, the engine is a 617910 - either a 1975 or 76, I chose this one because the stock intake manifold for the 309D van draws air directly from the front and the W115 almost points forward. I have attached some photos for viewing (hope they attach) - any words of wisdom are welcomed. I have been turning wrenches for 30 some odd years but diesels are relatively new.
Mike
05-10-2010, 01:09 AM
#2
It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
ForcedInduction
05-10-2010, 01:09 AM
#2
Looking good. Cutting and fabricating a forward facing inlet shouldn't be too difficult in the scope of the conversion.
It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
05-10-2010, 01:38 AM
#3
(05-10-2010, 01:09 AM)ForcedInduction Looking good. Cutting and fabricating a forward facing inlet shouldn't be too difficult in the scope of the conversion.
It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
It's all in the gearing
.Over here those sort of vans have the om616 engine. The om617 will be a "screamer"
.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
![[Image: 3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg)
(05-10-2010, 01:09 AM)ForcedInduction Looking good. Cutting and fabricating a forward facing inlet shouldn't be too difficult in the scope of the conversion.
It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
It's all in the gearing
.Over here those sort of vans have the om616 engine. The om617 will be a "screamer"
.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
05-10-2010, 07:58 AM
#4
George3soccer
05-10-2010, 07:58 AM #4Well in most cases performance is the factor for a swap or reason to keep a moor but in oher cases the motor hasbeen accustomed to it's performance and in some cases the motor has been either reached it's stock imitations for performance and higherhp is wanted. In European and American scenes.
05-10-2010, 08:31 AM
#5
(05-10-2010, 01:09 AM)ForcedInduction It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
We have a lot more straight road than them. Topspeed is more important to us. Additionally, much of the modern road development of this country took place after the advent of the automobile. Its in our blood to zoom along with plenty of power on an open highway without having to slow down for 1000 miles
They have what, 44 countries of something like 230 languages in the same space?I can drive from Paris to Berlin, only 544 miles. That would only take me 3 quarters down the state of CA, 770 miles long.
Why Australians and Canadians are just as obsessed-
This post was last modified: 05-10-2010, 08:45 AM by JB3.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(05-10-2010, 01:09 AM)ForcedInduction It still fascinates me that Americans cry if a car has less than 200hp to propel its one occupant, yet Europeans are fine with a sub-100hp engine to propel a 7,000lb+ cargo van.
We have a lot more straight road than them. Topspeed is more important to us. Additionally, much of the modern road development of this country took place after the advent of the automobile. Its in our blood to zoom along with plenty of power on an open highway without having to slow down for 1000 miles
They have what, 44 countries of something like 230 languages in the same space?I can drive from Paris to Berlin, only 544 miles. That would only take me 3 quarters down the state of CA, 770 miles long.
Why Australians and Canadians are just as obsessed-
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
05-11-2010, 01:26 AM
#6
(05-10-2010, 08:31 AM)dropnosky text
Well, these vans will do 55-60mph all day long with a 616 engine. My 240d with 616 4 speed was good for 100mph.
Top speed is not an issue, as long as you give up acceleration.
But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
(05-10-2010, 08:31 AM)dropnosky text
Well, these vans will do 55-60mph all day long with a 616 engine. My 240d with 616 4 speed was good for 100mph.
Top speed is not an issue, as long as you give up acceleration.
But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
05-11-2010, 03:46 PM
#7
But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
[/quote]
True. That would make an enormous difference in road travel. The traditional low price of fuel over here makes for a somewhat limited mass transit system as far as interstate travel is concerned. A sudden spike like that would probably result in chaos.
I also see that I have taken us completely off subject!
sorry. Question for desmotre- What manual transmission is that?
This post was last modified: 05-11-2010, 03:51 PM by JB3.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
[/quote]
But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
[/quote]
True. That would make an enormous difference in road travel. The traditional low price of fuel over here makes for a somewhat limited mass transit system as far as interstate travel is concerned. A sudden spike like that would probably result in chaos.
I also see that I have taken us completely off subject! sorry.
Question for desmotre- What manual transmission is that?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
05-12-2010, 07:54 PM
#8
(05-11-2010, 03:46 PM)dropnosky But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
True. That would make an enormous difference in road travel. The traditional low price of fuel over here makes for a somewhat limited mass transit system as far as interstate travel is concerned. A sudden spike like that would probably result in chaos.
I also see that I have taken us completely off subject!
sorry. Quote:Question for desmotre- What manual transmission is that?
Thanks for the notes/replies. Dropnosky, the transmission is a manual four speed #711.2 or G1/17. I have not removed it yet; however, the end plate surrounding the flywheel from the M115 engine will bolt to the 617.910 engine. The stock engine (5 cylinder) for a 309D is a 617.913 but short of ordering one from Europe the 617.910 is the next best thing. I have discovered that the motor mounts are different for the 617 engine than the M115 engine - no real surprise, just the challenge acquiring them. I have part numbers but no North American supplier.
The next step will be to set the lash on the valves and do a compression test - I am curious as this is a low mileage (108K) but a 35 year old engine, so valve seals are in order etc.
Michael
This post was last modified: 05-13-2010, 03:51 PM by winmutt.
(05-11-2010, 03:46 PM)dropnosky But the most important thing is the price of the fuel. If the price of the fuel over there would have been 3-4x the price it is now, you'd be in the same situation.
True. That would make an enormous difference in road travel. The traditional low price of fuel over here makes for a somewhat limited mass transit system as far as interstate travel is concerned. A sudden spike like that would probably result in chaos.
I also see that I have taken us completely off subject!
sorry. Quote:Question for desmotre- What manual transmission is that?
Thanks for the notes/replies. Dropnosky, the transmission is a manual four speed #711.2 or G1/17. I have not removed it yet; however, the end plate surrounding the flywheel from the M115 engine will bolt to the 617.910 engine. The stock engine (5 cylinder) for a 309D is a 617.913 but short of ordering one from Europe the 617.910 is the next best thing. I have discovered that the motor mounts are different for the 617 engine than the M115 engine - no real surprise, just the challenge acquiring them. I have part numbers but no North American supplier.
The next step will be to set the lash on the valves and do a compression test - I am curious as this is a low mileage (108K) but a 35 year old engine, so valve seals are in order etc.
Michael
05-13-2010, 03:52 PM
#9
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Who loves ya? http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
05-13-2010, 08:03 PM
#10
(05-13-2010, 03:52 PM)winmutt Who loves ya? http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
Thanks for the link, I will call tomorrow. The challenge is the need for "one" off parts. However, I have other tasks to do before I have to insert the engine - I am going to try for a cold compression test just to get a sense of where this engine is at.
Mike
(05-13-2010, 03:52 PM)winmutt Who loves ya? http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
Thanks for the link, I will call tomorrow. The challenge is the need for "one" off parts. However, I have other tasks to do before I have to insert the engine - I am going to try for a cold compression test just to get a sense of where this engine is at.
Mike
05-14-2010, 08:19 AM
#11
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Jim Ince has access to 309D's etc. Eurotruck is a good place to get new parts. Ince is a valuable wealth of knowledge as is that mailing list.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
05-15-2010, 09:57 AM
#12
(05-13-2010, 03:52 PM)winmutt Who loves ya? http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
Not familiar with mx4 but Sean and Steve at EuroTruck are a great resource for anyone working on Mercedes trucks.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(05-13-2010, 03:52 PM)winmutt Who loves ya? http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/
Also try Jim Ince on the mx4 moggers email list.
Not familiar with mx4 but Sean and Steve at EuroTruck are a great resource for anyone working on Mercedes trucks.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
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