Holset oil supply and drain
Holset oil supply and drain
01-25-2010, 08:53 AM
#1
From Holset's manuals
Quote:8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9°F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
...
11. Oil return pipes are permitted to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.
...
14. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
15. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.
What size restriction orifice would I need to reduce 100psi to max. 75psi without overly restricting flow? The garretts use a 3mm orifice (in the oil line for the stock T3 and inside the oil hole on the GT22).
This post was last modified: 01-25-2010, 09:02 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
01-25-2010, 08:53 AM
#1
The HE341Ve is finally well on its way to running. The drain is 42* below horizontal but the issue is supply pressure and temperature. MB's oil pump runs up to 107psi cold and at above 3000rpm when hot. The oil thermostat is 230*F but the 341Ve is water-cooled.
From Holset's manuals
Quote:8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9°F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
...
11. Oil return pipes are permitted to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.
...
14. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
15. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.
What size restriction orifice would I need to reduce 100psi to max. 75psi without overly restricting flow? The garretts use a 3mm orifice (in the oil line for the stock T3 and inside the oil hole on the GT22).
01-26-2010, 01:07 PM
#5
I would construct a test supply line with a pressure gauge after a fitting where you could swap restrictors. Connect this to the turbo and play with the restrictions until you reach your desired pressure. In reality, the internal restriction of the turbo may be sufficient to keep the pressure to 75 PSI.
Once you get your pressure set, connect the turbo oil discharge to a tube and run it into a container. Run the engine at the prescribed RPM for one minute and compare the amount of oil you collect to the specs.
For temperature control, you put a small 2 pass oil cooler in line with the supply line. You wouldn't even have to mount it in an air stream. The radiant action would probably be sufficient to cool the oil a little.
Another option would be to construct a small water to oil heat exchanger out of copper tubing and either mount it in series with the water supply to the turbo or mount it independently if you don't plan on using the water cooling on the turbo.
This post was last modified: 01-26-2010, 01:10 PM by E300TSC.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
Off the top of the head, it's pretty hard to guess at the size of the oriface without knowing the internal restriction of the turbo and the flow rate of that leg of the oil system.
I would construct a test supply line with a pressure gauge after a fitting where you could swap restrictors. Connect this to the turbo and play with the restrictions until you reach your desired pressure. In reality, the internal restriction of the turbo may be sufficient to keep the pressure to 75 PSI.
Once you get your pressure set, connect the turbo oil discharge to a tube and run it into a container. Run the engine at the prescribed RPM for one minute and compare the amount of oil you collect to the specs.
For temperature control, you put a small 2 pass oil cooler in line with the supply line. You wouldn't even have to mount it in an air stream. The radiant action would probably be sufficient to cool the oil a little.
Another option would be to construct a small water to oil heat exchanger out of copper tubing and either mount it in series with the water supply to the turbo or mount it independently if you don't plan on using the water cooling on the turbo.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
01-26-2010, 09:10 PM
#6
(01-26-2010, 01:07 PM)E300TSC For temperature control, you put a small 2 pass oil cooler in line with the supply line. You wouldn't even have to mount it in an air stream. The radiant action would probably be sufficient to cool the oil a little.
Another option would be to construct a small water to oil heat exchanger out of copper tubing and either mount it in series with the water supply to the turbo or mount it independently if you don't plan on using the water cooling on the turbo.
Those are both good ideas.
I have a little oil to air cooler from a small Kohler engine (about 4" square) and a gasoline to A/C fuel cooler off an 70's MG.
Both will have to run alongside each other to reach the turbo so adding the MG cooler wouldn't be an issue, I could attach it to the rear engine hoist eyelets.
The issue with the MG cooler is its meant for carburetor fuel and low-side A/C pressures. I'll have to do some pressure tests and see if it will fail.
This post was last modified: 01-26-2010, 09:11 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
01-26-2010, 09:10 PM
#6
(01-26-2010, 01:07 PM)E300TSC For temperature control, you put a small 2 pass oil cooler in line with the supply line. You wouldn't even have to mount it in an air stream. The radiant action would probably be sufficient to cool the oil a little.
Another option would be to construct a small water to oil heat exchanger out of copper tubing and either mount it in series with the water supply to the turbo or mount it independently if you don't plan on using the water cooling on the turbo.
Those are both good ideas.
I have a little oil to air cooler from a small Kohler engine (about 4" square) and a gasoline to A/C fuel cooler off an 70's MG.
Both will have to run alongside each other to reach the turbo so adding the MG cooler wouldn't be an issue, I could attach it to the rear engine hoist eyelets.
The issue with the MG cooler is its meant for carburetor fuel and low-side A/C pressures. I'll have to do some pressure tests and see if it will fail.
01-27-2010, 10:43 AM
#7
(01-26-2010, 09:10 PM)forcedinduction a gasoline to A/C fuel cooler off an 70's MG.
That's pretty spiffy!
(01-26-2010, 09:10 PM)forcedinduction The issue with the MG cooler is its meant for carburetor fuel and low-side A/C pressures. I'll have to do some pressure tests and see if it will fail.
The A/C side of things should be fine since when the A/C is off and the pressures are equalized, there should be over 100PSI there. The fuel side... no clue.
This post was last modified: 01-27-2010, 10:43 AM by Tymbrymi.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(01-26-2010, 09:10 PM)forcedinduction a gasoline to A/C fuel cooler off an 70's MG.
That's pretty spiffy!
(01-26-2010, 09:10 PM)forcedinduction The issue with the MG cooler is its meant for carburetor fuel and low-side A/C pressures. I'll have to do some pressure tests and see if it will fail.
The A/C side of things should be fine since when the A/C is off and the pressures are equalized, there should be over 100PSI there. The fuel side... no clue.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
01-27-2010, 11:28 AM
#8
Its the pressure I'm really worried about. At this point I'm figuring starting with 3mm (or 1/8") and working from there with some replaceable inline fittings and a post-orifice gauge. If I can get cold-start pressure around 80psi then maintaining more than 30psi will be a given since even hot idle doesn't go below 20psi.
ForcedInduction
01-27-2010, 11:28 AM
#8
Temperature I'm not too worried about; MB uses a pretty large oil cooler and I can always add a fan to it or extend the radiator shroud. Colorado isn't known for its heat either.
Its the pressure I'm really worried about. At this point I'm figuring starting with 3mm (or 1/8") and working from there with some replaceable inline fittings and a post-orifice gauge. If I can get cold-start pressure around 80psi then maintaining more than 30psi will be a given since even hot idle doesn't go below 20psi.
01-27-2010, 01:01 PM
#9
If you get a chance take some pics of the cooler off the kohler engine
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-27-2010, 01:01 PM #9I have owned several MG's and never seen one of those very cool!
If you get a chance take some pics of the cooler off the kohler engine
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
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