Need info on W201/190d swap OM603/OM606
Need info on W201/190d swap OM603/OM606
I can see the engineswap has been done a couple of times before, but my case is a little "special" as the conversions has been made to last generation W201s. Due to strict emission requirements in Denmark the W201 has to be older than 1984 or it's virtually impossible to get the engine swap aproved for road-use/streetlegal without spending a fortune.
That leaves 190d 2.0 and 2.5 as the only cars the OM60x can be swapped into as the 2.6E og 2.5 Turbo diesel wasn't on the market before 1986.
Goal with conversion :
1. Streetlegal car
2. OM603/OM606 running stock (147bhp or 177bhp)
3. Limited Slip Differential
4. Close to bolt-on conversion (some small mods are okay)
Can someone describe in short what parts I would need to acomplish that?
Something like - complete suspension from an W201 2.6E, LSD from an W124 E300D, engine OM603 or OM606 /w mechanical IP. Would'nt this be bolt-on except for some small mods?
Regards.
Nicklas
Sallemander
08-09-2009, 12:01 PM #1I'm thinking of buying a 190d W201 and do an engineswap to a OM603 or OM606. Before buying the car I have to estimate the cost of the project and therefor need to know what has to be done to complete the swap succesfully.
I can see the engineswap has been done a couple of times before, but my case is a little "special" as the conversions has been made to last generation W201s. Due to strict emission requirements in Denmark the W201 has to be older than 1984 or it's virtually impossible to get the engine swap aproved for road-use/streetlegal without spending a fortune.
That leaves 190d 2.0 and 2.5 as the only cars the OM60x can be swapped into as the 2.6E og 2.5 Turbo diesel wasn't on the market before 1986.
Goal with conversion :
1. Streetlegal car
2. OM603/OM606 running stock (147bhp or 177bhp)
3. Limited Slip Differential
4. Close to bolt-on conversion (some small mods are okay)
Can someone describe in short what parts I would need to acomplish that?
Something like - complete suspension from an W201 2.6E, LSD from an W124 E300D, engine OM603 or OM606 /w mechanical IP. Would'nt this be bolt-on except for some small mods?
Regards.
Nicklas
(08-09-2009, 12:01 PM)Sallemander Due to strict emission requirements in Denmark the W201 has to be older than 1984 or it's virtually impossible to get the engine swap aproved for road-use/streetlegal without spending a fortune.
That leaves 190d 2.0 and 2.5 as the only cars the OM60x can be swapped into as the 2.6E og 2.5 Turbo diesel wasn't on the market before 1986.
I just thought that the body of the W201 190D 2.5 from 1983 is identical to the one of a 1986 W201 2.6E except for some suspension parts, so maybe this isnt a thing to consider afterall when doing a OM60x engine swap to a W201.
Only info I need is what transmission, clutch, flywheel I need for the W201 to work with a LSD differential.
Sallemander
08-09-2009, 03:47 PM #2(08-09-2009, 12:01 PM)Sallemander Due to strict emission requirements in Denmark the W201 has to be older than 1984 or it's virtually impossible to get the engine swap aproved for road-use/streetlegal without spending a fortune.
That leaves 190d 2.0 and 2.5 as the only cars the OM60x can be swapped into as the 2.6E og 2.5 Turbo diesel wasn't on the market before 1986.
I just thought that the body of the W201 190D 2.5 from 1983 is identical to the one of a 1986 W201 2.6E except for some suspension parts, so maybe this isnt a thing to consider afterall when doing a OM60x engine swap to a W201.
Only info I need is what transmission, clutch, flywheel I need for the W201 to work with a LSD differential.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/190e...t-564.html
and here
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/kozu...t-205.html
If you have any further questions shoot me a pm or post in this thread.
Thanks,
Kozuka
Look in this thread all the information you need is pritty much here.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/190e...t-564.html
and here
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/kozu...t-205.html
If you have any further questions shoot me a pm or post in this thread.
Thanks,
Kozuka
I read those post and I think I figured out the engine conversion. Engine OM606, mechanical IP from OM603, flywheel from a OM602 2,5D and a 3rd party performance clutch to take the high torque/bhp. But I still have some questions regarding suspension and the gearbox/LSD.
1. Suspension : For the OM606 to fit the W201 engine bay you need swaybays from the 2.6E inline-6. Are they bolt-on with the right brackets?
2. Suspension : The engine is heavy, and the 190D needs springs from a 2.6E inline-6. Do the springs fit the original shock absorbers, and if not are the 2,6E shock absorbers bolt-on?
3. Gearbox/LSD : If I want a limited slip differential, what are the possibilities? the 2,3-16v ones are very rare and expensive. I think I once read that one could modify a ASR LSD from a W124 (4-matic i think) to fit a W201 gearbox. I read that if you didn't have the ASR controller, it would function as a normal LSD. Know anything about this?
4. Your opinion on a stock OM603 vs. OM606 with mechanical IP. I guess the engines are very similar except for 12v vs. 24v. Do the OM606 drive a lot better, because it's a lot more expensive than OM603 and power is about 146 vs 160bhp with mechanical ip on both..
If you don't know the answer to all of the questions, it's okay you only answer the ones you do
Regards
Nicklas
Sallemander
08-10-2009, 11:24 AM #4Kozuka->
I read those post and I think I figured out the engine conversion. Engine OM606, mechanical IP from OM603, flywheel from a OM602 2,5D and a 3rd party performance clutch to take the high torque/bhp. But I still have some questions regarding suspension and the gearbox/LSD.
1. Suspension : For the OM606 to fit the W201 engine bay you need swaybays from the 2.6E inline-6. Are they bolt-on with the right brackets?
2. Suspension : The engine is heavy, and the 190D needs springs from a 2.6E inline-6. Do the springs fit the original shock absorbers, and if not are the 2,6E shock absorbers bolt-on?
3. Gearbox/LSD : If I want a limited slip differential, what are the possibilities? the 2,3-16v ones are very rare and expensive. I think I once read that one could modify a ASR LSD from a W124 (4-matic i think) to fit a W201 gearbox. I read that if you didn't have the ASR controller, it would function as a normal LSD. Know anything about this?
4. Your opinion on a stock OM603 vs. OM606 with mechanical IP. I guess the engines are very similar except for 12v vs. 24v. Do the OM606 drive a lot better, because it's a lot more expensive than OM603 and power is about 146 vs 160bhp with mechanical ip on both..
If you don't know the answer to all of the questions, it's okay you only answer the ones you do
Regards
Nicklas
(08-10-2009, 11:24 AM)Sallemander Kozuka->
I read those post and I think I figured out the engine conversion. Engine OM606, mechanical IP from OM603, flywheel from a OM602 2,5D and a 3rd party performance clutch to take the high torque/bhp. But I still have some questions regarding suspension and the gearbox/LSD.
1. Suspension : For the OM606 to fit the W201 engine bay you need swaybays from the 2.6E inline-6. Are they bolt-on with the right brackets?
2. Suspension : The engine is heavy, and the 190D needs springs from a 2.6E inline-6. Do the springs fit the original shock absorbers, and if not are the 2,6E shock absorbers bolt-on?
3. Gearbox/LSD : If I want a limited slip differential, what are the possibilities? the 2,3-16v ones are very rare and expensive. I think I once read that one could modify a ASR LSD from a W124 (4-matic i think) to fit a W201 gearbox. I read that if you didn't have the ASR controller, it would function as a normal LSD. Know anything about this?
4. Your opinion on a stock OM603 vs. OM606 with mechanical IP. I guess the engines are very similar except for 12v vs. 24v. Do the OM606 drive a lot better, because it's a lot more expensive than OM603 and power is about 146 vs 160bhp with mechanical ip on both..
If you don't know the answer to all of the questions, it's okay you only answer the ones you do
Regards
Nicklas
I'll chime in and Kozuka can correct me if I am wrong;
if you can, get a 2.5D 5-speed flywheel, uprated clutch pack for any of the 5-speed transmissions (2.6 or 2.5D out of a 190D or 2.6/2.8/3.0 out of a 300E are ideal but all will easily take the power)
sway bars are direct bolts, yes - struts are the same on the 2.3 and 2.6 cars -- the springs are seperate and you can just throw the 2.6 springs right into the 2.3 no problem.
I would get a used 16V differential, one can be had for 2-400 dollars. its just easier that way.
#4, kozuka will have to answer
1976 W115 medium red/tan 240D (undergoing M117 heart transplant)
1989 BMW E30 327iC SETA 5MT
1987 white/black 190D Turbo Diesel - Recaro 16V seats, Monoblocks, 11PSI.
2009 white/black C63 ///AMG
1987 BMW E30 325E M50B25NV 24V swap 5MT. 5 lug.
1999 white/grey ML430
1991 BMW E30 318i 5MT (Beater)
1990 BMW E34 525i 5MT
1997 red/black/black SL600
(08-10-2009, 11:24 AM)Sallemander Kozuka->
I read those post and I think I figured out the engine conversion. Engine OM606, mechanical IP from OM603, flywheel from a OM602 2,5D and a 3rd party performance clutch to take the high torque/bhp. But I still have some questions regarding suspension and the gearbox/LSD.
1. Suspension : For the OM606 to fit the W201 engine bay you need swaybays from the 2.6E inline-6. Are they bolt-on with the right brackets?
2. Suspension : The engine is heavy, and the 190D needs springs from a 2.6E inline-6. Do the springs fit the original shock absorbers, and if not are the 2,6E shock absorbers bolt-on?
3. Gearbox/LSD : If I want a limited slip differential, what are the possibilities? the 2,3-16v ones are very rare and expensive. I think I once read that one could modify a ASR LSD from a W124 (4-matic i think) to fit a W201 gearbox. I read that if you didn't have the ASR controller, it would function as a normal LSD. Know anything about this?
4. Your opinion on a stock OM603 vs. OM606 with mechanical IP. I guess the engines are very similar except for 12v vs. 24v. Do the OM606 drive a lot better, because it's a lot more expensive than OM603 and power is about 146 vs 160bhp with mechanical ip on both..
If you don't know the answer to all of the questions, it's okay you only answer the ones you do
Regards
Nicklas
I'll chime in and Kozuka can correct me if I am wrong;
if you can, get a 2.5D 5-speed flywheel, uprated clutch pack for any of the 5-speed transmissions (2.6 or 2.5D out of a 190D or 2.6/2.8/3.0 out of a 300E are ideal but all will easily take the power)
sway bars are direct bolts, yes - struts are the same on the 2.3 and 2.6 cars -- the springs are seperate and you can just throw the 2.6 springs right into the 2.3 no problem.
I would get a used 16V differential, one can be had for 2-400 dollars. its just easier that way.
#4, kozuka will have to answer
1976 W115 medium red/tan 240D (undergoing M117 heart transplant)
1989 BMW E30 327iC SETA 5MT
1987 white/black 190D Turbo Diesel - Recaro 16V seats, Monoblocks, 11PSI.
2009 white/black C63 ///AMG
1987 BMW E30 325E M50B25NV 24V swap 5MT. 5 lug.
1999 white/grey ML430
1991 BMW E30 318i 5MT (Beater)
1990 BMW E34 525i 5MT
1997 red/black/black SL600
Either way you look at when your said and done to make the power on one of these engines in good condition is going to be $3000-5000 in it from the get-go on all this VGT, Myan Pump, Injectors, Etc Etc.
Suspension. I cant stress enough the weight of the engine. A OM603 weights alot compaired to a M103 so I would definatly go for the Cut 500E Front springs and Whatever you like in the back. I would also suggest the 500E front swaybar mounting is different you need to mount the brackets off the 500E *backwards* and trim the ends of the swaybar to fit. But it will combat the extra weight in the front.
The problem with other LSD's is that they are actually ASD which is an electronically controlled clutch mechanisim. I would say you want an LSD go on the 190rev and you can find one for a somewhat decent price but probably needs to be rebuilt. As for those Diffs *I have no clue*.
Thanks,
Kozuka
#4 It's all about power, the 603 pump will only get you to around 175hp stock. But an upgraded pump on a 606 will put down somewhere around the 500hp mark reliably. But when you talk about drivability you have to remember the torque we are talking here. What does the stock engine put out like 120hp and 200ft lb's of torque. Obviously this is not a completely liener path but when you start getting around the 300-400tq's mark your Always going to give up drivablity. So I would say if your planning on running this as a drag car all out power 606 is the way to go. If you want something thats crazy fast (300+ hp) but still able to launch at a stop without burning the tires or stalling the engine.
Either way you look at when your said and done to make the power on one of these engines in good condition is going to be $3000-5000 in it from the get-go on all this VGT, Myan Pump, Injectors, Etc Etc.
Suspension. I cant stress enough the weight of the engine. A OM603 weights alot compaired to a M103 so I would definatly go for the Cut 500E Front springs and Whatever you like in the back. I would also suggest the 500E front swaybar mounting is different you need to mount the brackets off the 500E *backwards* and trim the ends of the swaybar to fit. But it will combat the extra weight in the front.
The problem with other LSD's is that they are actually ASD which is an electronically controlled clutch mechanisim. I would say you want an LSD go on the 190rev and you can find one for a somewhat decent price but probably needs to be rebuilt. As for those Diffs *I have no clue*.
Thanks,
Kozuka
ForcedInduction
08-10-2009, 11:26 PM
#7
ASD wouldn't be a bad idea if you could make a standalone control for it. Stock is only active up to 20mph so I don't know how effective/reliable it would be beyond that.
(08-10-2009, 11:26 PM)ForcedInduction ASD wouldn't be a bad idea if you could make a standalone control for it. Stock is only active up to 20mph so I don't know how effective/reliable it would be beyond that.
I read somewhere that if you don't use the ASD in a ASD differential it will function as a normal LSD, but unfortunately I can't find the link.
Although I found this word document. Sounds interesting :
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/465230/In...%20non.doc
MOD EDIT: Converted the document into a thread: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/w201...t-597.html
Sallemander
08-11-2009, 03:09 AM #8(08-10-2009, 11:26 PM)ForcedInduction ASD wouldn't be a bad idea if you could make a standalone control for it. Stock is only active up to 20mph so I don't know how effective/reliable it would be beyond that.
I read somewhere that if you don't use the ASD in a ASD differential it will function as a normal LSD, but unfortunately I can't find the link.
Although I found this word document. Sounds interesting :
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/465230/In...%20non.doc
MOD EDIT: Converted the document into a thread: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/w201...t-597.html
ForcedInduction
08-11-2009, 05:20 AM
#9
Thats a very useful document, thanks for posting it. Too bad a W201 diff won't fit in a W123, we're pretty much stuck looking for an AMG part or Frankensteining something together.
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