Manual Transmission Gurus -- QUESTION
Manual Transmission Gurus -- QUESTION
I know the FSM clearly states to use ATF in the manual gearbox. In the late 70's and early 80's, there were only a few options out there in the AFT world, e.g., Type "F", et cet. Now, there are a zillion options.
My question is:
What does one use when chaning out the manual transmission gear box oil. That is, what type of ATF ? I have seen where folks posted all kinds of answers from varying types of oil, e.g., W20, W50, et cet. I would suspect those answers are just wrong. So, assuming the FSM is the best source of info, any leads on the best / correct ATF ???
Application: W123 Getrag 717.400 Five Speed.
Also, can one adjust the clutch ?
The question is, do the synchros use a fiber friction liner or are they just yellow metal? If they're yellow metal, just use anything except GL5 hypoid gear oil. If they have fibrous friction surfaces then I'd prefer substituting mercon/dextronIII/MerconV for typeF. I filled my Getrag 265 with MerconV and it operates properly.
I have no idea ?? It is a Getrag 717.400. My guess it is all steel inside.
So, assuming that is correct, Dexron III is OK ????
(10-31-2012, 12:38 PM)Greazzer I have no idea ?? It is a Getrag 717.400. My guess it is all steel inside.
So, assuming that is correct, Dexron III is OK ????
(10-31-2012, 12:38 PM)Greazzer I have no idea ?? It is a Getrag 717.400. My guess it is all steel inside.
So, assuming that is correct, Dexron III is OK ????
Cool ... I wish there was more in the FSM than just "ATF" -- WTH.
BTW -- how touch is it to replace the synchro's ? That is assuming the fluid change does not help out. I agree that new fluid does not replace metal or damage, but it should help some ...
Whine ... whine ... whine
(10-31-2012, 02:49 PM)Greazzer Cool ... I wish there was more in the FSM than just "ATF" -- WTH.
BTW -- how touch is it to replace the synchro's ? That is assuming the fluid change does not help out. I agree that new fluid does not replace metal or damage, but it should help some ...
Whine ... whine ... whine
Yeah, DexIII should be good. MerconV is probably the cheapest synthetic you can get, if you're a synthetic nerd.
The synchros are going to be brass, but some of the brass synchros have a coating or fiber glued to them similar to the way friction material is glued to an auto trans clutch plate or band. The ones with the friction material glued to them can be fluid sensitive. The M5OD in my F150 almost wouldn't go into first with the vehicle stopped and the engine idling. Whatever fluid in it was red, so it was ATF but replacing it with fresh MerconV totally fixed my 1st gear problem after a few heat cycles. I guess the friction modifiers had to soak into the fibers before it was fixed.
(10-31-2012, 02:49 PM)Greazzer Cool ... I wish there was more in the FSM than just "ATF" -- WTH.
BTW -- how touch is it to replace the synchro's ? That is assuming the fluid change does not help out. I agree that new fluid does not replace metal or damage, but it should help some ...
Whine ... whine ... whine
I got a grind (very very noticable GRIND) shifting from third to second if I am going slightly above a snail's pace. I am better off just to shift into 1st and have the high rev's or hit 3rd and have it near a stall until I can give it some throttle. If I am going pretty slow, then I can shift from 3rd to 2nd without a grind.
(10-31-2012, 07:32 PM)Greazzer I got a grind (very very noticable GRIND) shifting from third to second if I am going slightly above a snail's pace. I am better off just to shift into 1st and have the high rev's or hit 3rd and have it near a stall until I can give it some throttle. If I am going pretty slow, then I can shift from 3rd to 2nd without a grind.
I looked up those transmissions in the parts fisch and there are kinds of call outs for parts of all sorts, kits... aftermarket parts available. I noticed all the cool guys out there snagging up all of these have no clue where to find parts or anyone who has been in them. They are VERY simple and most of the tools that worked on the other benz 4 speeds work on these. I'm tempted to start a mail order repair service that specializes in these. What fluid was in it when you got it? Send me your transmission number complete and I can dig up what you need to know. If you have the right numbers you can still order these from the dealer's parts departments.
(10-31-2012, 07:32 PM)Greazzer I got a grind (very very noticable GRIND) shifting from third to second if I am going slightly above a snail's pace. I am better off just to shift into 1st and have the high rev's or hit 3rd and have it near a stall until I can give it some throttle. If I am going pretty slow, then I can shift from 3rd to 2nd without a grind.
THANK YOU. It is a Getrag 717.400 but I will get the other numbers off the side.
(10-31-2012, 07:32 PM)Greazzer I got a grind (very very noticable GRIND) shifting from third to second if I am going slightly above a snail's pace. I am better off just to shift into 1st and have the high rev's or hit 3rd and have it near a stall until I can give it some throttle. If I am going pretty slow, then I can shift from 3rd to 2nd without a grind.
(10-31-2012, 07:32 PM)Greazzer I got a grind (very very noticable GRIND) shifting from third to second if I am going slightly above a snail's pace. I am better off just to shift into 1st and have the high rev's or hit 3rd and have it near a stall until I can give it some throttle. If I am going pretty slow, then I can shift from 3rd to 2nd without a grind.
Since you have this grinding, I would just use fresh ATF and run it. If it improves, then great. But if it doesn't, then all else the ATF will clean out the trans and no harm created. Next I would try a succession of fluids. First run Mobil 1 5w30 or preferably 10w30. Little thicker than ATF and would help in the stabilize the synchro. If that doesn't work, than try Redline MTL (75w80/85) an even thicker fluid.
.
(10-31-2012, 08:29 PM)Greazzer THANK YOU. It is a Getrag 717.400 but I will get the other numbers off the side.
(10-31-2012, 08:29 PM)Greazzer THANK YOU. It is a Getrag 717.400 but I will get the other numbers off the side.
I had no idea you have to change the fluids in the manual trans....
(11-02-2012, 01:41 PM)Purplecomputer I had no idea you have to change the fluids in the manual trans....
(11-02-2012, 01:41 PM)Purplecomputer I had no idea you have to change the fluids in the manual trans....
Haha. My old jeep that I had once upon a time had a 5 speed in it. When it first started to get really cold outside that winter it got extreemly hard to shift. Long story short, the trans had water and mud in it along with *some* oil. The water was freezing into a slush in the trans lol. It drained out like muddy maple syrup.
So how/where do you change the oil? Is there just a drain and then a filler up top some place?
There is a 14mm plug on the side and bottom. Make sure you can undo the side plug first (the fill plug). I had to use all the juice in the world to crack that sucker open. You will need a 14mm allen wrench because there is no room at all between the trans and car body. You dont want to drain the trans and then be stuck and not be able to open the fill plug. I have a simple pump deal from Autozone that goes right into the container. I used amost both quarts of the Mobil1.
I recommand plain
Mobile 1 0W30 (engine oil).
Down to -10°C the Transmission will have
polite gearchanges. If it gets colder - take
a synthetic ATF III.
... and sometimes it can be a good idea
to add 1,5 - 2 ml of Dibutylmaleate.
It prevents the shaft sealing from getting leaky.
(no, it won´t help if there is a severe leak and it`s use is not intended with fibre friction disc or a converter clutch)
And if you collect the old gear oil in an bowl,
take some break cleaner and shoot a little in the oil.
You`ll see glittering (golden) Particels of brass (wear debris of the syncron rings)
Greetz
willy
Yes, Grinding when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd. It is mechanical and not a fluid issue. I just have to watch it.
I have another Getrag 717.400 which I want to swap anyway to double check its in good working order.
Lol 2 getrags! Ever finalize you fluids?
YES ! Did a flush with cheapo Autozone ATF, then put in Mobil 1 synthetic. My guardian angel was on my shoulder that day. Autozone had 2 quarts for sale, $4.99 each and I already had about 3-4 opened quarts of the cheap stuff. So, it was a simple $10 mainteanance issue and I got rid of the various bottles of stuff lying around. That stuff came out black like used motor oil and after the flush, pinkish, so I think I got it. Just wish my 2nd gear synchro as simple ... LOL
(11-01-2012, 08:15 PM)Austincarnut(10-31-2012, 08:29 PM)Greazzer THANK YOU. It is a Getrag 717.400 but I will get the other numbers off the side.
just pm me the info and whatever questions, I'm kinda curious myself.
Is it a '123260200188'?
(11-01-2012, 08:15 PM)Austincarnut(10-31-2012, 08:29 PM)Greazzer THANK YOU. It is a Getrag 717.400 but I will get the other numbers off the side.
just pm me the info and whatever questions, I'm kinda curious myself.
I will have the check, but it is the REAL deal, Getrag 717.400, the ONLY Five(5) speed that bolts up to the venerable OM617.9XX engine.