Running OM603 on ATF oil?
Running OM603 on ATF oil?
If so, i suppose I can get used ATF oil for free.
Have any one tried, or does anyone know if it would work?
(I live in Norway, were diesel and gas is 2,5-3X the price compared to in the USA, and i drive 20.000 miles / year).
I've been told that "any diesel" can be ran on Hydraulic or ATF oil. All you need to do, is to filter it, and put it on the tank.
If so, i suppose I can get used ATF oil for free.
Have any one tried, or does anyone know if it would work?
(I live in Norway, were diesel and gas is 2,5-3X the price compared to in the USA, and i drive 20.000 miles / year).
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
will work. Prepare yourself to be cleaning filters and changing your oil and such. Good way to slowly destroy a motor and save on fuel costs. Also, maybe more difficult in Norway where it is very cold
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(08-02-2012, 09:16 AM)larsalan will work. Prepare yourself to be cleaning filters and changing your oil and such. Good way to slowly destroy a motor and save on fuel costs. Also, maybe more difficult in Norway where it is very cold
Maybe. Is it? I don't know, since I've never tried. That is why I ask here.
So.
Will it destroy the engine? if yes, why?
Will I have to change the oil (/oilfilter) more often?
Will I have to change the fuel filters more often?
I definitly don't want to destroy the engine. Changing oil / filters more often will be ok.
I spend ~$6000 a year in diesel. (about the same as what the car is worth :-) ).
(08-02-2012, 09:16 AM)larsalan will work. Prepare yourself to be cleaning filters and changing your oil and such. Good way to slowly destroy a motor and save on fuel costs. Also, maybe more difficult in Norway where it is very cold
Maybe. Is it? I don't know, since I've never tried. That is why I ask here.
So.
Will it destroy the engine? if yes, why?
Will I have to change the oil (/oilfilter) more often?
Will I have to change the fuel filters more often?
I definitly don't want to destroy the engine. Changing oil / filters more often will be ok.
I spend ~$6000 a year in diesel. (about the same as what the car is worth :-) ).
(08-02-2012, 12:34 PM)larsalan I say go for it
Not if I risk harming the engine in any way. My car is too special (for me) to risk destroying it. If it is risk free, I'd like to try it.
I am reading in the other part, but have a hard time figuring out what to look for. All hints are welcome
raysorenson
08-02-2012, 12:43 PM #7I do it on an OM603. You best disable the egr to minimize build up of deposits. I had to remove and clean the prechambers after about 10k miles using straight ATF, then I disabled the EGR. It may also cause the catalytic converter to clog. All of the rubber fuel lines will need to be replaced because the ATF will soften them and cause them to swell. ATF has a lower cetane rating so starting will be more difficult in cold weather, but it also makes more power than diesel. I'm doing this with a 617 too. The 603 smokes more at idle than the 617.
Is it only the start up that is harder, or will it have prolems running in cold weather? I have a webasto pre heater (Thermo Top Z retrofit by me), and never start the engine cold during the winter (will the webasto work with ATF???)
BTW. My 1992 300 TD Turbo have no catalytic converter or EGR.
Basically, it is the same engine that was sold in 1987 in the states, only some small adjustments were made in 1989. It's been sold in Europe all years 1987 --> end of 124. Catalytic converter and EGR was optional up to 1993, and standard from then on.
Thank you. How long have you been using ATF? Do you use 100% ATF, or do you mix it in diesel?
Is it only the start up that is harder, or will it have prolems running in cold weather? I have a webasto pre heater (Thermo Top Z retrofit by me), and never start the engine cold during the winter (will the webasto work with ATF???)
BTW. My 1992 300 TD Turbo have no catalytic converter or EGR.
Basically, it is the same engine that was sold in 1987 in the states, only some small adjustments were made in 1989. It's been sold in Europe all years 1987 --> end of 124. Catalytic converter and EGR was optional up to 1993, and standard from then on.
raysorenson
08-02-2012, 02:56 PM #9Yes, 100% atf. I've got good compression and glow plugs and it starts right up in cold weather here in the southern US.
I would say that if you do not cause premature engine wear or premature engine wear that you can deal with, and all you need to do is keep an eye out for certain things, then it might be a good trade off. What I mean by that is that I would gladly destroy an engine over the course of let's say 5-8 years for absolutely free fuel. With the savings of $3K per year, x's the number of years, that is a great tradeoff, especially when rebuilding an engine is under $2,000. Worth it to me when comparing costs. Just my .02 cents worth.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
I would keep an eye on the INJECTORS. I just rebuilt a set for someone and that person ran a blend of used Motor Oil and WVO and those injectors were super funky. He said his car slowly but surely started running like crap. After he got the injectors back that were cleaned, et cet., said his car ran like new. Time will tell if it starts to run crappy again. I think those injectors had about 15K on them, so that seems about on year's worth of running on the blend. General maintenance is probably in that ball park too.
I would say that if you do not cause premature engine wear or premature engine wear that you can deal with, and all you need to do is keep an eye out for certain things, then it might be a good trade off. What I mean by that is that I would gladly destroy an engine over the course of let's say 5-8 years for absolutely free fuel. With the savings of $3K per year, x's the number of years, that is a great tradeoff, especially when rebuilding an engine is under $2,000. Worth it to me when comparing costs. Just my .02 cents worth.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(08-02-2012, 01:35 PM)frodes How long have you been using ATF?
Forgot to answer that one. Sorry, no long-term info here. My 603 has roughly 14k miles on mostly ATF. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.
A tank full of diesel in this locale is between 80 and 90 USD in the W124, the sandblaster was 100USD and the filters housings attached to it were around 100USD, the 30 micron prefilters which rarely clog are 25USD and the final 2 micron filters are good for around 5 fillups and cost the same. So, a pessimistic guess would be that I have 20USD per tank of WATF. With a savings of 60usd per tank, I could save 2000USD by the 34th tank full. I seriously doubt I'll wear out the motor by the 34th tank.
raysorenson
08-02-2012, 09:14 PM #11(08-02-2012, 01:35 PM)frodes How long have you been using ATF?
Forgot to answer that one. Sorry, no long-term info here. My 603 has roughly 14k miles on mostly ATF. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.
A tank full of diesel in this locale is between 80 and 90 USD in the W124, the sandblaster was 100USD and the filters housings attached to it were around 100USD, the 30 micron prefilters which rarely clog are 25USD and the final 2 micron filters are good for around 5 fillups and cost the same. So, a pessimistic guess would be that I have 20USD per tank of WATF. With a savings of 60usd per tank, I could save 2000USD by the 34th tank full. I seriously doubt I'll wear out the motor by the 34th tank.
Would you mind letting me in on the details about your filters? Do you filter the ATF oil before you put it in the tank? What kind of equippment do you use?
Have you installed additional filters in the car? Pictures?
Do there exist 2 micron filters that fit in the original filter holder, or will I have to mount a separate filter?
Thanks.
Would you mind letting me in on the details about your filters? Do you filter the ATF oil before you put it in the tank? What kind of equippment do you use?
Have you installed additional filters in the car? Pictures?
Do there exist 2 micron filters that fit in the original filter holder, or will I have to mount a separate filter?
![[Image: image_11932.jpg]](http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_11932.jpg)
and I welded bolts to the blaster so that I could mount 2 Stanadyne fuel manager filters to the blaster, they look like this
![[Image: 24915.gif]](http://fmsfilters.com/files/24915.gif)
The first filter is 30 micron, the second is 2. I put a pressure regulator on the air inlet to the blaster to limit pressure to 20psi.
raysorenson
08-03-2012, 06:48 PM #13I put the ATF in a sandblaster like this
and I welded bolts to the blaster so that I could mount 2 Stanadyne fuel manager filters to the blaster, they look like this
The first filter is 30 micron, the second is 2. I put a pressure regulator on the air inlet to the blaster to limit pressure to 20psi.
I have been running on different stuff for a few years now. used motoroil(don't like it) hydraulic oil, ATF, and used vegetable oil from restaurants. I mix with diesel or paraffin ca 50/50, depends on the season. You need to filter it before you put it in the tank. But the most important issue is water. you have to remove everything before you fill it in your tank. I few times my injectors started to clog up but a good injector cleaner fix that.
Hi
I have been running on different stuff for a few years now. used motoroil(don't like it) hydraulic oil, ATF, and used vegetable oil from restaurants. I mix with diesel or paraffin ca 50/50, depends on the season. You need to filter it before you put it in the tank. But the most important issue is water. you have to remove everything before you fill it in your tank. I few times my injectors started to clog up but a good injector cleaner fix that.
I don't have a sandblaster, but it would be possible to make a sand filter, I suppose?
What if I find a big coffee filter, fill it up with sand, and let the oil pass thru it? Will gravity alone be enough?
Is it possible to change the original fuel filter for a 2 micron, or is fitting another filter the only solution?
How do I make sure I get rid of the water? The water will fall to the bottom, so is it enough to make sure not to pump oil from the bottom of the cans?
Any experience on alternative fuels and webasto heater? I have a couple of them, and they are easy maintained, so my biggest issue is if it will work at all.
Do you run the ATF oil thru the sandblaster ??? A sand filter?
I don't have a sandblaster, but it would be possible to make a sand filter, I suppose?
What if I find a big coffee filter, fill it up with sand, and let the oil pass thru it? Will gravity alone be enough?
Is it possible to change the original fuel filter for a 2 micron, or is fitting another filter the only solution?
How do I make sure I get rid of the water? The water will fall to the bottom, so is it enough to make sure not to pump oil from the bottom of the cans?
Any experience on alternative fuels and webasto heater? I have a couple of them, and they are easy maintained, so my biggest issue is if it will work at all.
(08-04-2012, 04:12 AM)frodes Do you run the ATF oil thru the sandblaster ??? A sand filter?
The tank is just a tank. I fill it up w/ATF and then I pressurize it with air to force the ATF through the bottom of the tank, then through the filters and eventually into my fuel tank.
I like the sandblaster because I have compressed air available, regulating air pressure regulates flow rate and don't have to invest in an electric pump.
raysorenson
08-04-2012, 08:35 AM #16(08-04-2012, 04:12 AM)frodes Do you run the ATF oil thru the sandblaster ??? A sand filter?
The tank is just a tank. I fill it up w/ATF and then I pressurize it with air to force the ATF through the bottom of the tank, then through the filters and eventually into my fuel tank.
I like the sandblaster because I have compressed air available, regulating air pressure regulates flow rate and don't have to invest in an electric pump.
pressurized air in the car wheel --> bottle with brake fluid --> pressurized brake fluid --> brake fluid reservoair in the car.
So, the filters you mention is used outside the car?
Do I need additional diesel filters in the car, as long as the fuel is properly filtered on beforehand?
Ah. I get it. (I think). I made a small size system like that to easily get the air out of the brake lines.
pressurized air in the car wheel --> bottle with brake fluid --> pressurized brake fluid --> brake fluid reservoair in the car.
So, the filters you mention is used outside the car?
Do I need additional diesel filters in the car, as long as the fuel is properly filtered on beforehand?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...r-mod.html
for added in the car filtration capabilities
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
There is a thread on a filter mod. I thought it is the same for the 603 housing as for the 617 housing.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...r-mod.html
for added in the car filtration capabilities
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
There's no room for a taller filter there either but we make a plate to move the filter up and over to a spot where there is room.
The new banjo bolt needs to be 16mm x1.5mm and then whatever the length, like 50mm?
Those baldwins are cheaper and have better specs than the stock filter for 617. I thought the mod would be for 603 as well.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Oh, I guess I'm wrong on the 603 then. I only have experience on a 617.
There's no room for a taller filter there either but we make a plate to move the filter up and over to a spot where there is room.
The new banjo bolt needs to be 16mm x1.5mm and then whatever the length, like 50mm?
Those baldwins are cheaper and have better specs than the stock filter for 617. I thought the mod would be for 603 as well.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(08-04-2012, 12:32 PM)frodes So, the filters you mention is used outside the car?
Do I need additional diesel filters in the car, as long as the fuel is properly filtered on beforehand?
Yeah the ATF is filtered to 2 microns as I pump it in. Since my tank has been recently cleaned and the fuel that I'm pumping in should be squeaky clean at 2 microns, I feel like the stock MB filters are adequate. But if you want to add on-board filtration, those Stanadyne Fuel Manager filters have water separation capability.
raysorenson
08-04-2012, 02:06 PM #21(08-04-2012, 12:32 PM)frodes So, the filters you mention is used outside the car?
Do I need additional diesel filters in the car, as long as the fuel is properly filtered on beforehand?
Yeah the ATF is filtered to 2 microns as I pump it in. Since my tank has been recently cleaned and the fuel that I'm pumping in should be squeaky clean at 2 microns, I feel like the stock MB filters are adequate. But if you want to add on-board filtration, those Stanadyne Fuel Manager filters have water separation capability.
and I heat my used oil to more than 100C, if it has water it will start bubbling.
The stock 603/606 fuel filter works fine as long as you have pre filtered it with the 1 micron filter before you put it in your tank.
I use a 1 micron filter from this company http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?que...filterbags
and I heat my used oil to more than 100C, if it has water it will start bubbling.
The stock 603/606 fuel filter works fine as long as you have pre filtered it with the 1 micron filter before you put it in your tank.
The one I have is 70 L/H (18 gallon / hr) and 0,4 bar (6 psi)
Are the dudadiesel filterbags any good? They seem to be good value for money.
Buying from the UK is easier for me. How about this kit?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-FILTER-BAGS...500wt_1414
100 - 25 - 1 micron.
Instead of using pressurized air to force the oil thru a filter, can i use a standard fuel feeding pump?
The one I have is 70 L/H (18 gallon / hr) and 0,4 bar (6 psi)
Are the dudadiesel filterbags any good? They seem to be good value for money.
Buying from the UK is easier for me. How about this kit?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-FILTER-BAGS...500wt_1414
100 - 25 - 1 micron.
I would keep an eye on the INJECTORS. I just rebuilt a set for someone and that person ran a blend of used Motor Oil and WVO and those injectors were super funky. He said his car slowly but surely started running like crap. After he got the injectors back that were cleaned, et cet., said his car ran like new. Time will tell if it starts to run crappy again. I think those injectors had about 15K on them, so that seems about on year's worth of running on the blend. General maintenance is probably in that ball park too.
Hy fine people, well i´m running a 605 N/A on used engine oil, aviation fuel , cooking oil etc, whatever burns, usually i mix it 50/50 with diesel or kerosene (JET A1) well i´m doing this for a wile now , maybe around 50.000km, after all the problems i had had i´m about to give up.
Did not made any changes to fuel system or filtration. started without filtering the used engine oil and found out hard way that it usually contains water and clog the system. Solution is to filter the mix before drop it in the tank.
Now after this time suddenly started to have problems starting and smoking a lot , white smoke, and engine started to heat up more than usual, and lost power like it was clogged.
My concerns are that the IP is some how damaged, or injectors or timing issues.
I really don´t know where to start, do u think is good idea to check for the timing and clean up the injectors.
FD,
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[quote='Greazzer' pid='43433' dateline='1343938071']
I would keep an eye on the INJECTORS. I just rebuilt a set for someone and that person ran a blend of used Motor Oil and WVO and those injectors were super funky. He said his car slowly but surely started running like crap. After he got the injectors back that were cleaned, et cet., said his car ran like new. Time will tell if it starts to run crappy again. I think those injectors had about 15K on them, so that seems about on year's worth of running on the blend. General maintenance is probably in that ball park too.
Hy fine people, well i´m running a 605 N/A on used engine oil, aviation fuel , cooking oil etc, whatever burns, usually i mix it 50/50 with diesel or kerosene (JET A1) well i´m doing this for a wile now , maybe around 50.000km, after all the problems i had had i´m about to give up.
Did not made any changes to fuel system or filtration. started without filtering the used engine oil and found out hard way that it usually contains water and clog the system. Solution is to filter the mix before drop it in the tank.
Now after this time suddenly started to have problems starting and smoking a lot , white smoke, and engine started to heat up more than usual, and lost power like it was clogged.
My concerns are that the IP is some how damaged, or injectors or timing issues.
I really don´t know where to start, do u think is good idea to check for the timing and clean up the injectors.
FD,
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