IP timing
IP timing
Too much advance with that much fuel and you'll be killing headgaskets!
ForcedInduction
01-03-2011, 09:49 PM
#2
Stock 26 or advanced to 24.
Too much advance with that much fuel and you'll be killing headgaskets!
ForcedInduction
01-03-2011, 09:57 PM
#4
I've never used the RIV method, drip timing has worked well for me.
(01-03-2011, 09:49 PM)ForcedInduction Stock 26 or advanced to 24.
24 degrees is more advance than 26???
I thought stock was 24....
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-04-2011, 04:17 PM #5(01-03-2011, 09:49 PM)ForcedInduction Stock 26 or advanced to 24.
24 degrees is more advance than 26???
I thought stock was 24....
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Then 26 would be a good advance.
ForcedInduction
01-04-2011, 04:26 PM
#6
You're right, I double checked and its 24 stock. Its been over a year since I set either of mine.
Then 26 would be a good advance.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-04-2011, 05:07 PM #7Is there anything that can be done to prolong the head gasket with extra fuel? Better bolts/studs ... anything besides lessening the fuel or retarding the timing?
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
ForcedInduction
01-04-2011, 05:15 PM
#8
You could use ARP studs. They don't have a kit but one can be assembled from their inventory.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-04-2011, 05:18 PM #9That's what I was wondering... I work for a place that makes studs, I could make a set for around $45 instead of somewhere around $75 from ARP
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
So 23 or 25 might be best then? I read the 25 figure for the Tom/derv pump in action was used. I still have to make up a throttle linkage arm and it ought to go in the car tomorrow. Changed the timing chains today along with the banana rail and torsion bar bushings.
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
25 deg is more advanced than 22 deg!
I set mine to 22 deg BTDC (dynamically with strobe light) because I don't like too strong diesel sound.
Next weekend I want to alter the timing to see the results performance wise.
Too far advanced can't be good for the engine.
I wonder how "late" I can go and what happens then.
The extreme limit might be smoke from not completely burnt fuel on partial load or probably at WOT.
I fear being too early with end of delivery (with the stock timing device and normal max. rpm).
Tom
we are talking about "before TDC".
25 deg is more advanced than 22 deg!
I set mine to 22 deg BTDC (dynamically with strobe light) because I don't like too strong diesel sound.
Next weekend I want to alter the timing to see the results performance wise.
Too far advanced can't be good for the engine.
I wonder how "late" I can go and what happens then.
The extreme limit might be smoke from not completely burnt fuel on partial load or probably at WOT.
I fear being too early with end of delivery (with the stock timing device and normal max. rpm).
Tom
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-05-2011, 06:04 PM #12I don't have the fuel you do but after Rudolf helped remove the rack and reinstalled the IP by eye it was at 18 Deg. BTDC and it made nasty grey smoke. I timed it to 26 BTDC and the difference was night and day! Black smoke and more power!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America wrote;
"I don't have the fuel you do but after Rudolf helped remove the rack and reinstalled the IP by eye it was at 18 Deg. BTDC and it made nasty grey smoke. I timed it to 26 BTDC and the difference was night and day! Black smoke and more power!"
That makes sense alright Captain. I was always led to believe that you advanced the Injector pump for more power but this gave a harder diesel knock. If you retard the injector pump timing you loose power but end up with a softer running engine as the diesel knock eases. We were always advised to time the OM616/617 engines at 24-26 degrees BTDC. I always found 25 degrees BTDC gave a cracking good blend of power,smooth running and economy.
I always used the 'Spill Time' method with a drip tube. In the early days of diesel timing lights there seemed to be a variation in the results achieved from differing makes and operators of same. Has anyone got any further experience of this?
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" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-06-2011, 01:30 PM #13RE: IP timing
Captain America wrote;
"I don't have the fuel you do but after Rudolf helped remove the rack and reinstalled the IP by eye it was at 18 Deg. BTDC and it made nasty grey smoke. I timed it to 26 BTDC and the difference was night and day! Black smoke and more power!"
That makes sense alright Captain. I was always led to believe that you advanced the Injector pump for more power but this gave a harder diesel knock. If you retard the injector pump timing you loose power but end up with a softer running engine as the diesel knock eases. We were always advised to time the OM616/617 engines at 24-26 degrees BTDC. I always found 25 degrees BTDC gave a cracking good blend of power,smooth running and economy.
I always used the 'Spill Time' method with a drip tube. In the early days of diesel timing lights there seemed to be a variation in the results achieved from differing makes and operators of same. Has anyone got any further experience of this?
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" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Also FWIW, I didn't really notice a difference in the sound or starting of the engine between 18 and 26 degrees BTDC...
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-06-2011, 07:38 PM #14I used the drip method as well with a drip tube I got from Rudolf. I can't see needing to get anymore accurate than that! It amazed me at how sensitive the drip tube method was. As far as I could tell I can accuratly time a motor to within half a degree or so. Plenty accurate for me...
Also FWIW, I didn't really notice a difference in the sound or starting of the engine between 18 and 26 degrees BTDC...
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
Almost done- hit a few snags. The lift pump was not giving fuel to the IP as there was a bit of stiffness in it and I needed to give it a birthday. Perhaps tomorrow it'll be running and I can give a report.
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
I.e. my friend with the N/A 617 has 150 bar pop pressure. 29 deg BTDC with drip are 24 deg BTC with strobe.
Tom
The difference between drip method and strobe light is that the strobe gives real begin of injection. The static methods do not take into account the pop pressure and delivery valves.
I.e. my friend with the N/A 617 has 150 bar pop pressure. 29 deg BTDC with drip are 24 deg BTC with strobe.
Tom
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