HHO Dyno results
HHO Dyno results
I just want to see one controlled environment test with identical engines running next to each other over sustained periods of times. AKA a real test that does not involve your right foot. Then I will believe it.
I don’t have a sophisticated highly advance control environment to use and test my system. Just using the basic fundamental concept of electrolysis using some tolerable material 316L SS and Titanium as the Anode and Cathode with Bi-Polar plates in between and 12V DC drawing 25 amps with KOH as the electrolyte. Install the system in a vehicle producing the right percentage of HHO as per the engine displacement take the vehicle for and drive in the same condition (I drive or what the clients drive) on an average 150 miles then calculate the gas used per the amount of miles travel.
One thing to note is, just installing a system on a gas or diesel will not yield the gain I am sharing. Several factors you have to consider, for gas installing an EFIE to fool the ECU and for the diesel (in this case I am playing with the ALDA) and now I am trying to learn how to adjust the IP timing to retard timing to see if the faster flame can be accommodated. On my 2009 F-150 with a Triton engine the timing is automatically adjusted, the same for the Harley Davidson (one test got 52 mpg and ran cool).
Unless you guys try this and experience the result you’ll keep throwing these negative comments. I was in your shoes for a long time until I decided to get a plan and build my own cell. No, I did not get these results instantly it took some time and a lot of experiments and test drives. This 1985 300SD I happen to buy just to see what this process will do to it and how much gain, since most of the test result I’ve read from multiple test done that diesel reacts better with HHO.
Now I am sharing with you what I am experiencing I can share with you what my Town Car is doing, which 48% mpg increase and 33% on the highway on the F-150. As mentioned this process defies every theory including everyone favorite, thermodynamics. But hey, every aeronautical engineer I know tells me the CH-53 should not fly considering its massive airframe and the power plant install, but it flies.
As far, as a control environment I am working on that as well. The EPA conducts test and getting them to test a common person’s theory is like cutting a rock with a plastic knife. As it stands all that I share is being experience by people who decided to take a chance on the process, like a single mom with limited income that drives a 1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme with V-6 engine. A consistent 27 mpg from her 16-18 she said she use to get.
Raise all the BS flags all you want. Bottom line install a system to fit your car or truck combat the ECU if it’s a gas and for diesel adjust what ever limits fuel delivery and take a ride. I’ve been following this process for years when it first started some of the initial pioneer of builders did not do the image any justice. Yes, people’s money was being taking for device that blew up and did not show any gain at all. Because they did not do their researches to combat the modernization of the fuel and computer system cars these days have? They are smarter, they adjust to the changing environment HHO is doing. One of the most complicated one I’ve experienced is Toyota system from 2004 and present. But with determination and constants testing I was successful in combating a Scion tc that gets 30 mpg easy but the owner wanted more due her daily driving of 100+ miles. By the time I finished the configuration she was telling me about her 42 mpg car and the power she was experiencing. So I took it to a dyno to see, the power she felt during her drive could not be duplicated but you can feel it during acceleration between low to mid range. I took the system off the car prior to her shipping it to her son in another state.
One thing I was going to do was offer a system to a volunteer close to me, but with all the negative feedback I hear from here and another forum I decided not to continue with the idea. I don’t push this process people, people come to me and asked because they see the “Hybrid’ logo on all my vehicles and soon they will see one on this 1985 300SD once my test is done.
Sorry I got winded I am passionate about this I’ve been looking for something to add to an ICE that produce a smooth acceleration and faster throttle response for years. As I said I was in your shoes for years until decided to experiment on my own.
Another thing, my 2007 RKC and 2007 Altra Classic are Hybrid and several other Harley in my area. One guy was going to get a big bore kit and 6 speed trans. He called me to install one on this bike. The only thing he had to say after his 100 mile ride the first day he picked his bike. Thank you, you saved me 4k.
Tell you what let me borrow the car with an on off switch for the system I will alternate every fuel fillup running the hho and not running it. foot to the floor or no throttle at all that will be my constant. I will keep picture s and very close documentation.
(08-11-2010, 12:57 PM)winmutt Controlled experiments and I will be a believer.
(08-11-2010, 12:57 PM)winmutt Controlled experiments and I will be a believer.
Tiptop.
I have over half dozen of emision test ranging from Oregon which is one of the most strict on emission, TX. CA. MD in the area that requires it with those I been called a liar and a computer expert because it was assumed I altered the numbers.
meareweird,
Since you leave in Balt, and probably close to me I will offer to install a unit on your car drive it in the manner you drive, to work, to the grocery store. If you do not experience and power gain, better accel, mileage gain and lower the black smoke from your tail pipe I will get on this forum and admit this does not work.
If it does I would like a complete Par. with detail write up of your experience with the system on your car, post it here with you admitting it how well it works. I'll even let you keep the system. It will be the same configuration as the one on mind and make adjustment as I did on mine.
If your hydroxy system was able to do that for my car I would be amazed
The only significant change I see between the two is CO, and the difference is very small.
I still see nothing at all that changes the proven fact hydrogen generators don't work.
(08-22-2010, 02:41 PM)ForcedInduction The only significant change I see between the two is CO, and the difference is very small.there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work. yes, they don't improve mpg in cars with o2 sensors and programmed ecu's that monitor various temp sensors, but our mercedes' don't have those. that's the hidden beauty gg. no mpg gain doesn't prove the hydroxy isn't working with the fuel. it improves overall brake thermal efficiency and reduces pollution on every vehicle on the road.
I still see nothing at all that changes the proven fact hydrogen generators don't work.
(08-22-2010, 02:41 PM)ForcedInduction The only significant change I see between the two is CO, and the difference is very small.there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work. yes, they don't improve mpg in cars with o2 sensors and programmed ecu's that monitor various temp sensors, but our mercedes' don't have those. that's the hidden beauty gg. no mpg gain doesn't prove the hydroxy isn't working with the fuel. it improves overall brake thermal efficiency and reduces pollution on every vehicle on the road.
I still see nothing at all that changes the proven fact hydrogen generators don't work.
Maybe you could help me market my newest project...
(08-24-2010, 01:15 PM)winmutt Divining rod?
(08-24-2010, 01:15 PM)winmutt Divining rod?
(08-23-2010, 03:54 PM)tiptopsaidhe there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work.Just 200 years of people unable to make a single one work.
(08-23-2010, 03:54 PM)tiptopsaidhe there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work.Just 200 years of people unable to make a single one work.
Where did i put my Crystal?
(08-24-2010, 07:54 PM)willbhere4u Where did i put my Crystal?
(08-24-2010, 07:54 PM)willbhere4u Where did i put my Crystal?
(08-24-2010, 07:19 PM)ForcedInduction(08-23-2010, 03:54 PM)tiptopsaidhe there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work.Just 200 years of people unable to make a single one work.
(08-24-2010, 07:19 PM)ForcedInduction(08-23-2010, 03:54 PM)tiptopsaidhe there hasn't been any proof shown yet that they don't work.Just 200 years of people unable to make a single one work.
(08-26-2010, 04:10 PM)RustyLugNut Just because you say it, does not make it so FI.Actually it does since its backed up by hoards of verified science, physics AND the complete failure of any devices to become used in the mass market. Even the Tornado, a completely worthless and well debunked scam, is still sold on store shelves at $65 a pop!
Quote:This is a subject that is well outside your field of expertise.That is false information.
(08-26-2010, 04:10 PM)RustyLugNut Just because you say it, does not make it so FI.Actually it does since its backed up by hoards of verified science, physics AND the complete failure of any devices to become used in the mass market. Even the Tornado, a completely worthless and well debunked scam, is still sold on store shelves at $65 a pop!
Quote:This is a subject that is well outside your field of expertise.That is false information.
(08-26-2010, 05:31 PM)ForcedInduction(08-26-2010, 04:10 PM)RustyLugNut Just because you say it, does not make it so FI.Actually it does since its backed up by hoards of verified science, physics AND the complete failure of any devices to become used in the mass market. Even the Tornado, a completely worthless and well debunked scam, is still sold on store shelves at $65 a pop!
Quote:This is a subject that is well outside your field of expertise.That is false information.
(08-26-2010, 05:31 PM)ForcedInduction(08-26-2010, 04:10 PM)RustyLugNut Just because you say it, does not make it so FI.Actually it does since its backed up by hoards of verified science, physics AND the complete failure of any devices to become used in the mass market. Even the Tornado, a completely worthless and well debunked scam, is still sold on store shelves at $65 a pop!
Quote:This is a subject that is well outside your field of expertise.That is false information.
(08-26-2010, 07:37 PM)RustyLugNut Last time I checked, there were hoards of devices and systems that flat out worked, and never made it into the market.Show us one that has been proven scientifically to work.
Quote:Marketability is not a measure of scientific and engineering soundness.Obviously. Its a measure of the market's gullibility. Thats why countless Tornados, fuel line magnets and recreational fuel/oil additives are sold every day.
Quote:I was part of a team that built laser systems, nuclear accelerators and particle beams. They all worked. Just because they didn't go into common use doesn't change that.Yes, they worked. Not a single hydrogen generator has been made that works as claimed.
Quote:In a previous post, I went into a simplified explanation of the science that supports the mechanism that would allow an electrolysis generator to improve the combustion efficiency of an IC engine via hydrogen augmentation.Hydrogen augmentation is well known and proven. The problem for these scammers is that NASA (a well referenced source) used hydrogen flow many times greater than any little pickle jar with a few feet of wire can produce. They used a pre-made source (bottle), not generated by the engine's charging system.
Quote:I also pointed out the fact this mechanism will not improve your efficiency "100% or more!" as we see in scam ads. 10 - 30% and maybe 50% under the right variables is a possibility for older diesel engines.50% is far beyond physical possibilities, especially "for older diesel engines".
Quote:You blatantly state that there is no research backing up the science behind HHO devices.Wrong. I state that there is years of research debunking HHO devices, setting aside the fact that thermodynamics neuters the device's claims before they were even tested.
Quote:I pointed the reader to google key wordsWorthless. Link to them yourself. Saying "google it" leaves us guessing as to exactly which sources you're referencing and leaves a back-door for you to wiggle out of if (when) we debunk your claims.
Quote:Even though some of the research seems unrelatedHow convenient for you. Can't you link to any direct testing of HHO devices in the applications they are intended to be used for? Got any tests of your HHO device from independent laboratories?
Quote:they provide an understanding into the combustion process in a hydrogen augmented engineThat is well understood given the fact they apply high flow rates and gas from external sources.
Quote:As to my statement that you are not qualified? You have still to prove to anyone on these forums that you have a deep understanding of combustion pathways and the effect on the output of the internal combustion engine.Right back at you. Where is your degree? I'm not the one trying to sell people something. I'm not the one saying (paraphrased) "my device alone works where thousands of other devices over 200 years have failed".
(08-26-2010, 07:37 PM)RustyLugNut Last time I checked, there were hoards of devices and systems that flat out worked, and never made it into the market.Show us one that has been proven scientifically to work.
Quote:Marketability is not a measure of scientific and engineering soundness.Obviously. Its a measure of the market's gullibility. Thats why countless Tornados, fuel line magnets and recreational fuel/oil additives are sold every day.
Quote:I was part of a team that built laser systems, nuclear accelerators and particle beams. They all worked. Just because they didn't go into common use doesn't change that.Yes, they worked. Not a single hydrogen generator has been made that works as claimed.
Quote:In a previous post, I went into a simplified explanation of the science that supports the mechanism that would allow an electrolysis generator to improve the combustion efficiency of an IC engine via hydrogen augmentation.Hydrogen augmentation is well known and proven. The problem for these scammers is that NASA (a well referenced source) used hydrogen flow many times greater than any little pickle jar with a few feet of wire can produce. They used a pre-made source (bottle), not generated by the engine's charging system.
Quote:I also pointed out the fact this mechanism will not improve your efficiency "100% or more!" as we see in scam ads. 10 - 30% and maybe 50% under the right variables is a possibility for older diesel engines.50% is far beyond physical possibilities, especially "for older diesel engines".
Quote:You blatantly state that there is no research backing up the science behind HHO devices.Wrong. I state that there is years of research debunking HHO devices, setting aside the fact that thermodynamics neuters the device's claims before they were even tested.
Quote:I pointed the reader to google key wordsWorthless. Link to them yourself. Saying "google it" leaves us guessing as to exactly which sources you're referencing and leaves a back-door for you to wiggle out of if (when) we debunk your claims.
Quote:Even though some of the research seems unrelatedHow convenient for you. Can't you link to any direct testing of HHO devices in the applications they are intended to be used for? Got any tests of your HHO device from independent laboratories?
Quote:they provide an understanding into the combustion process in a hydrogen augmented engineThat is well understood given the fact they apply high flow rates and gas from external sources.
Quote:As to my statement that you are not qualified? You have still to prove to anyone on these forums that you have a deep understanding of combustion pathways and the effect on the output of the internal combustion engine.Right back at you. Where is your degree? I'm not the one trying to sell people something. I'm not the one saying (paraphrased) "my device alone works where thousands of other devices over 200 years have failed".
(08-27-2010, 06:19 AM)ForcedInduction(08-26-2010, 07:37 PM)RustyLugNut Last time I checked, there were hoards of devices and systems that flat out worked, and never made it into the market.Show us one that has been proven scientifically to work.
Quote:Marketability is not a measure of scientific and engineering soundness.Obviously. Its a measure of the market's gullibility. Thats why countless Tornados, fuel line magnets and recreational fuel/oil additives are sold every day.
Quote:I was part of a team that built laser systems, nuclear accelerators and particle beams. They all worked. Just because they didn't go into common use doesn't change that.Yes, they worked. Not a single hydrogen generator has been made that works as claimed.
Fission works very well too, but how many people have a reactor in their trunk?
Quote:In a previous post, I went into a simplified explanation of the science that supports the mechanism that would allow an electrolysis generator to improve the combustion efficiency of an IC engine via hydrogen augmentation.Hydrogen augmentation is well known and proven. The problem for these scammers is that NASA (a well referenced source) used hydrogen flow many times greater than any little pickle jar with a few feet of wire can produce. They used a pre-made source (bottle), not generated by the engine's charging system.
Quote:I also pointed out the fact this mechanism will not improve your efficiency "100% or more!" as we see in scam ads. 10 - 30% and maybe 50% under the right variables is a possibility for older diesel engines.50% is far beyond physical possibilities, especially "for older diesel engines".
You're talking getting into the 75-85% efficiency range. That kind of thermal efficiency is difficult to reach even for modern turbines.
A 50% thermal efficiency increase would revolutionize the world, and anything involving combustion. Somebody with that kind of information would be a billionaire from patent royalties alone, not selling junk from a $9/year cookie-cutter website to a people on a specialty forum.
Quote:You blatantly state that there is no research backing up the science behind HHO devices.Wrong. I state that there is years of research debunking HHO devices, setting aside the fact that thermodynamics neuters the device's claims before they were even tested.
Quote:I pointed the reader to google key wordsWorthless. Link to them yourself. Saying "google it" leaves us guessing as to exactly which sources you're referencing and leaves a back-door for you to wiggle out of if (when) we debunk your claims.
Quote:Even though some of the research seems unrelatedHow convenient for you. Can't you link to any direct testing of HHO devices in the applications they are intended to be used for? Got any tests of your HHO device from independent laboratories?
Quote:they provide an understanding into the combustion process in a hydrogen augmented engineThat is well understood given the fact they apply high flow rates and gas from external sources.
Quote:As to my statement that you are not qualified? You have still to prove to anyone on these forums that you have a deep understanding of combustion pathways and the effect on the output of the internal combustion engine.Right back at you. Where is your degree? I'm not the one trying to sell people something. I'm not the one saying (paraphrased) "my device alone works where thousands of other devices over 200 years have failed".
So far, the only thing you've conclusively proven is that you're a scammer with an agenda to sell your crap to people that have already clearly shown they don't believe a word you've said.
(08-27-2010, 06:19 AM)ForcedInduction(08-26-2010, 07:37 PM)RustyLugNut Last time I checked, there were hoards of devices and systems that flat out worked, and never made it into the market.Show us one that has been proven scientifically to work.
Quote:Marketability is not a measure of scientific and engineering soundness.Obviously. Its a measure of the market's gullibility. Thats why countless Tornados, fuel line magnets and recreational fuel/oil additives are sold every day.
Quote:I was part of a team that built laser systems, nuclear accelerators and particle beams. They all worked. Just because they didn't go into common use doesn't change that.Yes, they worked. Not a single hydrogen generator has been made that works as claimed.
Fission works very well too, but how many people have a reactor in their trunk?
Quote:In a previous post, I went into a simplified explanation of the science that supports the mechanism that would allow an electrolysis generator to improve the combustion efficiency of an IC engine via hydrogen augmentation.Hydrogen augmentation is well known and proven. The problem for these scammers is that NASA (a well referenced source) used hydrogen flow many times greater than any little pickle jar with a few feet of wire can produce. They used a pre-made source (bottle), not generated by the engine's charging system.
Quote:I also pointed out the fact this mechanism will not improve your efficiency "100% or more!" as we see in scam ads. 10 - 30% and maybe 50% under the right variables is a possibility for older diesel engines.50% is far beyond physical possibilities, especially "for older diesel engines".
You're talking getting into the 75-85% efficiency range. That kind of thermal efficiency is difficult to reach even for modern turbines.
A 50% thermal efficiency increase would revolutionize the world, and anything involving combustion. Somebody with that kind of information would be a billionaire from patent royalties alone, not selling junk from a $9/year cookie-cutter website to a people on a specialty forum.
Quote:You blatantly state that there is no research backing up the science behind HHO devices.Wrong. I state that there is years of research debunking HHO devices, setting aside the fact that thermodynamics neuters the device's claims before they were even tested.
Quote:I pointed the reader to google key wordsWorthless. Link to them yourself. Saying "google it" leaves us guessing as to exactly which sources you're referencing and leaves a back-door for you to wiggle out of if (when) we debunk your claims.
Quote:Even though some of the research seems unrelatedHow convenient for you. Can't you link to any direct testing of HHO devices in the applications they are intended to be used for? Got any tests of your HHO device from independent laboratories?
Quote:they provide an understanding into the combustion process in a hydrogen augmented engineThat is well understood given the fact they apply high flow rates and gas from external sources.
Quote:As to my statement that you are not qualified? You have still to prove to anyone on these forums that you have a deep understanding of combustion pathways and the effect on the output of the internal combustion engine.Right back at you. Where is your degree? I'm not the one trying to sell people something. I'm not the one saying (paraphrased) "my device alone works where thousands of other devices over 200 years have failed".
So far, the only thing you've conclusively proven is that you're a scammer with an agenda to sell your crap to people that have already clearly shown they don't believe a word you've said.