STD Other Projects W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52

W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52

W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52

 
  • 4 Vote(s) - 4.5 Average
 
atypicalguy
Holset

555
03-02-2019, 07:19 AM #175
(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)g wizz
(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy
(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.

But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.

It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out  interior.

Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
[Image: nOUfO2D.jpg]

Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.

There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure. 

Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.

It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.

its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.

external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.

cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.

Interesting. Well, I have a single 44 Tial bypass gate, with an internal gate bored out to just over an inch on the hx30 for good measure (don't expect it to do much, but every little bit helps). I don't plan to use much of the hx30 at higher rpm as the he451 will only provide enough air at higher PR, so it is more of a sequential setup with full bypass. The 44mm may not be enough to keep the hx30 from creeping. Fortunately the external gate has a lot of flow priority. Worst case scenario is to rework the manifold for double 60mm like erx setup.
atypicalguy
03-02-2019, 07:19 AM #175

(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)g wizz
(11-20-2018, 10:20 AM)atypicalguy
(11-13-2018, 04:04 PM)erx It's still reasonable 600hp from engine with new dyno results but yes on graph it's little less than it was with single turbo. As I said we had whole new dyno setup now with new dyno software and for the first time we used dyno roll brakes to make big turbo spoolup properly. Also I was using 2.65 diff for the first time. Different gear ratios and different dyno settings can make up big differences in numbers so it's hard to say if it has more or less power than with single hx52 but it's definitely faster and feels more powerful. In 2016 with single hx52 it made 408kw and 858nm from wheels. This time with new intake it made 382kw and 767nm but with old intake that I also used with single hx52 it made only 340kw but even with that it was faster this year. For example with singe turbo my best 1/4 mile was 12.9 192kph but now with slow start and with same ET it makes more kph. It has to be way slower than ET 12.9 to make speed as slow as 192kph and even with old intake manifold it made 199kph this year. It has a lot wider and useful rpm range now.

But main thing with 2 turbo setup is that driving comfort and engine dynamics is from different dimension compared to single hx52, it's hard to explain with words how much more refined it is now. Single hx52 and auto box is completely useless on street but now it drives like stock car without one minute turbo lag.

It could be much faster on 1/4 mile but I want to keep it as sleeper and not to rip out  interior.

Graph from 2016 with single hx52 and 8mm mech pump.
[Image: nOUfO2D.jpg]

Nice. That broad torque curve is what I am after also.

There must be significant resistance in the wastegates. If you look at what they are, from a flow perspective, it is terrible. A round valve with a 90 degree change in flow direction. So the flow path on the exhaust side is going to be more restrictive with a compound setup for sure. 

Having boost early seems important for purposes of using the power. Usually in the 0-60 videos of high power cars, the power is totally unusable until the car gets rolling. The bigger turbo hits so hard that it exceeds traction limits in the first gear or two, so without some form of electronic boost control there is no possibility of using the power effectively. With a system providing boost from 1000 rpm, the throttle should be much more usable to modulate the power.

It would also be possible to put a flow restrictor to the alda, limiting the rate that it increases the fuel with boost to some reasonable level. The cummins guys have such a device, with a dial on it to tune from inside the car.

its doing the opposite of what a normal valve does, at least with flow which is why all external waste gates open up above the valve seat. aka the shape shrouding the valve is what counts, not the angle it ultimately travels. every external waste gate flows better than an internal. also i think your forgetting its under pressure, not static free flowing so dynamic is bit different. any problem with waste gate flow would show up as boost creep.

external wastegate not flowing properly has more to do with header fab than anything else. they must be prioritized to fully utilize them.

cummins guys only have that dial (assuming your talking the p pump one) so they can street a truck without making smoke. the old school way was to run stock injectors while you dialy and swap out to the comp ones when your doing comp stuff. and trust me a even a 600hp cummins is going to make plenty of smoke. has nothing to do with power or traction, only smoke.

Interesting. Well, I have a single 44 Tial bypass gate, with an internal gate bored out to just over an inch on the hx30 for good measure (don't expect it to do much, but every little bit helps). I don't plan to use much of the hx30 at higher rpm as the he451 will only provide enough air at higher PR, so it is more of a sequential setup with full bypass. The 44mm may not be enough to keep the hx30 from creeping. Fortunately the external gate has a lot of flow priority. Worst case scenario is to rework the manifold for double 60mm like erx setup.

 
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Messages In This Thread
W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 01-31-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by raidaru - 01-31-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-01-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 02-01-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-01-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by F.R.A.S - 02-02-2015, 02:08 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by raidaru - 02-02-2015, 02:54 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-02-2015, 03:53 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 02-02-2015, 04:49 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-02-2015, 05:01 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by muuris - 02-02-2015, 05:28 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-02-2015, 05:45 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by muuris - 02-02-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-02-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by muuris - 02-05-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Insane190d - 02-02-2015, 07:17 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-02-2015, 07:24 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 02-02-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-02-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-03-2015, 02:53 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-03-2015, 08:40 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-03-2015, 08:53 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-04-2015, 02:13 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-04-2015, 03:14 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by sorin_cel - 02-04-2015, 03:46 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-04-2015, 05:08 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-04-2015, 05:39 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by F.R.A.S - 02-04-2015, 05:39 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-04-2015, 06:19 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-05-2015, 03:04 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 02-05-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by INC - 02-15-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-18-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 05-05-2015, 05:55 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by INC - 02-18-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-18-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-19-2015, 05:30 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-19-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 02-20-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 02-19-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 03-04-2015, 11:11 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 03-04-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 03-12-2015, 06:15 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 03-30-2015, 04:10 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Booster - 03-31-2015, 02:50 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-22-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by jegesmesh - 04-01-2015, 03:28 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-01-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by jegesmesh - 04-01-2015, 04:40 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 04-15-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-15-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Max - 04-22-2015, 06:19 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Booster - 04-23-2015, 03:28 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-23-2015, 03:39 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by hents99 - 04-23-2015, 10:49 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by sorin_cel - 04-23-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 04-29-2015, 11:14 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-29-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 04-29-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-29-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-01-2015, 07:56 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 05-01-2015, 10:33 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by seanyt - 05-03-2015, 04:12 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-03-2015, 05:55 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by seanyt - 05-03-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-05-2015, 06:10 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-07-2015, 02:33 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 05-07-2015, 09:41 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-08-2015, 04:43 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-18-2015, 02:23 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by sorin_cel - 06-23-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-23-2015, 07:00 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 08-17-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-06-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 10-06-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-06-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 10-07-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-07-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 10-08-2015, 07:19 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-08-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 10-13-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by DiseaselWeasel - 10-14-2015, 12:53 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by hents99 - 10-16-2015, 10:24 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-24-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 11-09-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-09-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 11-10-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-01-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 04-03-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 05-08-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by PedroFerreira - 06-06-2016, 04:46 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-06-2016, 01:47 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 06-08-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-08-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 06-08-2016, 05:04 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 06-08-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-09-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by whipplem104 - 06-10-2016, 08:05 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-10-2016, 09:26 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 06-12-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-12-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Mr_Robs - 06-12-2016, 09:08 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-13-2016, 02:38 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Petar - 06-13-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by atypicalguy - 05-16-2018, 01:22 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 06-27-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-28-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 06-28-2016, 02:58 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 06-28-2016, 03:18 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 07-27-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by TurboTim - 07-28-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 07-28-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 07-28-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bigblue - 07-29-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 07-30-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by TurboTim - 07-29-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by bruno_pinho - 07-30-2016, 08:35 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 08-24-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 08-24-2016, 03:06 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by -Mackan- - 08-24-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by NZScott - 08-24-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Spoolin - 09-01-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 09-01-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by kashi123 - 11-03-2016, 04:34 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-03-2016, 05:14 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by kashi123 - 11-03-2016, 04:53 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-30-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 10-31-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Hario' - 10-31-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-02-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 11-07-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by street_666 - 11-03-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-04-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Turbo - 11-05-2016, 04:06 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-13-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Spoolin - 11-18-2016, 10:49 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-19-2016, 03:35 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by starynovy - 11-18-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Petar - 11-19-2016, 04:11 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 11-19-2016, 04:21 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-10-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Turbo - 04-11-2017, 03:17 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-11-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Turbo - 04-12-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-23-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by hooblah - 05-08-2017, 08:03 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 08-27-2017, 04:06 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Turbo - 08-28-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by maxypriest - 08-29-2017, 05:34 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Lucian189 - 10-07-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-07-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 10-24-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by Turbo - 10-26-2017, 02:27 PM
RE: c220d om606 taxiSTD - by erx - 04-24-2018, 01:39 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 05-16-2018, 01:17 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 05-16-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 05-17-2018, 12:42 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 05-19-2018, 07:07 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 06-17-2018, 06:51 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by dieseltorque - 07-28-2018, 09:30 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by g wizz - 10-17-2018, 04:19 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 10-18-2018, 04:00 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by g wizz - 10-18-2018, 11:33 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 10-29-2018, 08:05 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 10-29-2018, 04:22 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 10-29-2018, 04:57 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by g wizz - 11-05-2018, 03:48 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 11-10-2018, 04:20 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by whipplem104 - 11-10-2018, 10:04 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 11-12-2018, 11:08 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by whipplem104 - 11-13-2018, 11:07 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by erx - 11-13-2018, 04:04 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 11-20-2018, 10:20 AM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by g wizz - 02-28-2019, 12:19 PM
RE: W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52 - by atypicalguy - 03-02-2019, 07:19 AM
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