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+--- Thread: Vacuum form headlight doors? (/showthread.php?tid=879)
Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 11-25-2009
Looking at kamel's ride at http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/kamels-78-300d-turbo-gettin-ready-for-rallyx-t-44.html (awesome by the way), it occurs to me that you could easily make a custom cover for the headlight door piece out of styrene.
This way, for almost nothing in weight and difficulty, you could end up with a super custom looking louver setup using the fog light space like kamel did.
Im going to make a vacuum form machine and post back after I try this
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-06-2009
Ok, rigged up a basic vacuum form machine, and made a couple of test pieces-
here are a number of pictures of the process-
I modified a couple of old busted door pieces into molds for this experiment. I poured gypsum casting cement into where the fog would be located-
heres a few pics of the former headlight doors, now molds after sanding and shaping-
A couple pics of the vacuum form machine-
Forming process-
more pics-
results after forming, the molds will need work if I want to do this again, the stock MB plastic will certainly break with the heat, I would probably cast a negative in alginate and recast a complete piece out of casting cement.
There was some bleed through of the shape of the plug, not enough sanding on the mold. Later versions will be better quality-
Couple of comparison shots-
right off of the mold, and after cutting, sanding, and shaping. Final form slips right over the existing headlight doors. Plus, with the flat backing over the fog lamp, I can pretty much put any shape I want if I want to add louvers or a grill maybe. Im out of town at the moment, but when Im back, Ill take a few pics of how they might look on a car.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - kamel - 12-06-2009
How much for a set?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-06-2009
Let me go and see if they need any trimming or shaping this next week on some dead cars in my area, then Ill just send this pair to you if you'd like. After all, this whole project is based on your car! PM me your mailing address. The fee would be for you to post back with some pics if you use them!
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-06-2009
Ah - thermoforming, that is one process of production we use for the products we make. Looks nice, it looks like you have some experience in this.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-07-2009
(12-06-2009, 11:24 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Ah - thermoforming, that is one process of production we use for the products we make. Looks nice, it looks like you have some experience in this.
If it can be made in the home for minimal investment, im all over it!
Here are some comparison pics, for me, the jury is still out on how this looks.
Got kind of a bug eyed loopy look to it with the bright white. They will need a little trimming on the outside next to the turn signal, and the look would really change based on how you handle finish and the flat spaces. I just sort of pushed the edges on in this picture, so they stick out a little bit. Fully fitted would be more integrated with the hood
Definitely completely changes the look of the car, for better or for worse. If there were some features on the flat space, it might look awesome.
The guy at the shop I was at was saying it would really change if you had something going on, like an intake grill, and on the opposite side you could glue the words turbo diesel on to it. We both kind of agreed that something needs to go there, maybe not fog lights, but something to tie the headlights and grill together. Might make an interesting look. Opinions?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - winmutt - 12-07-2009
Seems like a really easy way to make molds for spoilers and what not right?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-07-2009
(12-07-2009, 02:48 PM)winmutt Seems like a really easy way to make molds for spoilers and what not right?
definitely, the problem with the "at home" version of these machines is that you are limited in size to what can fit in a home oven. Whats been going through my mind repeatedly is "pillar pods you dont have to modify"
You would either have to buy a real machine, use one somewhere, or cut up a bunch of ovens to heat a frame long enough for, lets say body kit parts. Other than that, the skys the limit on what you can make as long as it has a release angle.
Im looking into different plastics other than styrene as well, something that might be a little more recyclable since there is a decent amount of waste, maybe Rudolf_Diesel has some experience?
check that- from what I was just reading, polystyrene is recyclable with a no: 6 symbol.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - kamel - 12-07-2009
Painting them black would make them look much more natural. Now here's a crazy idea. vacuum forming body panels? possibly even bumpers? hmmmm
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - ForcedInduction - 12-07-2009
A-pillar gauge pods...
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-07-2009
that should be the next project for this toy, an A-pillar gauge pod that is actually the right angle for these cars. It would take some considerable shaping and screwing around, but as long as a release is incorporated into it, it should work. Also, I see no reason why we can't make a kind of ghetto version of this taxi dash part- http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/taxi-dash-t-297.html
That vacuum form table was crappily made at a friends house, my oven is actually a little older and bigger, I am now making mark 2 vacuum form table with some better construction.
I bet you can totally pump out body panels, the machines big enough are just soooo expensive. If you were to make a qualiy mold though, I bet you could take the mold to a facility and have a panel made. I made these pieces out of 8th inch stryrene, and they are pretty stiff and heavy duty.
From what I was reading, the thickness of the material on the flats is reduced by 30% and on the up and downs by 10% when you stretch over a mold. At the same time, the structural integrity of the part is also increased, so things work out, but to make a decently stiff enough body panel, you would have to use at least 1/4 inch or bigger. Ive only gone up to a 1/4 inch in the past.
Still searching for a more recyclable plastic, grade 6 is actually pretty crappy since grade 7 is the hardest to recycle. I cant find a local center that will take grade 6. I want to find something down in grade 2. there is like a 50% waste in plastic, you make a huge pile of garbage in this process.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Rudolf_Diesel - 12-08-2009
We use PET (PETG / APET / RPET), PVC, and Polystyrene. We have to grind PS into small chips and send to a recycler. It is not impossible, just a pain. You are probably on the right track with PS, it is more rigid than the other materials, unless you use a really heavy gauge. We run our ovens around 650 degrees more or less depending on the material. If you have ever seen the Simpsons DVD collector series cases, we made those.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 12-08-2009
Simpsons DVD collector cases! I have seen and own your work
Here are a second set of comparison pics, this time I found a non horrific car to put them on, and painted them. The guy already has kind of a nice look going on, he had the original panels painted a nice grey. Still need to trim them a bit on the bottom, and I was unable to close the hood fully because of engine work taking place, but you get a better idea. If I were to do this, I would remount a set of stand alone fogs either below on on top of the bumper in the same general area. The other option would be to split the space, and put into the mold a provision for smaller newer fog lights in the flat space, with an air intake above-
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Nick - 12-28-2009
Ahhhh this is awesome! A while back I ripped the clear panels off the front of the light doors and painted the "fins" flat black, and since then I've been hopping junkyards left and right searching for a really nice set of light doors to steal the clear panels from.
How much for a "replica" clear front piece?
for lack of better words lol.This is great man, thumbs up!
*edit* "a set of clear front pieces" haha
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 01-03-2010
Im going to a plastics place on tuesday, ill see if clear stuff is even possible, would definitely be cool, although the mold would have to be perfect, cause we couldn't do much afterwords without ruining the finish.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - CID Vicious - 01-08-2010
It's certainly different. Personally I like the lights too much to want to lose them. Maybe for relocation to under the bumper.
Kamel, if you want bumpers, fiberglass is pretty easy. I've heard rumors of 'DIY Carbon Fiber' but I have no idea how involved/feasible/still expensive it might be.
I'm thinking of making a panel to replace the sunroof panel. Use the stock piece as the mold, leave about an inch of overlay around the edge and use 3M double sided tape. Or, for us in lovely SoCal and the like - Velcro?
Lightweight, gets rid of the tracks, cable, and motor, and with the Velcro you'd still have a sunroof! Wouldn't work in Washington, but in Cali...if you moved you'd just 3M it and maybe do something for a reliable watertight seal (non silicone if you ever want to paint the car and don't want fisheyes everywhere.)
The sunroof panel would fit in an oven...if you make 'em, send me one for the idea!
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 01-10-2010
Found a 40" wide electric oven on craigslist for 70 bucks! Works perfectly, even has sale paperwork from 96. [/align]
Im gonna cut this apart and rig something up for larger panels.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - garage - 09-14-2010
Ever do any more of this?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Captain America - 09-15-2010
Please Mr. Drop I need a Pillar Pod for some gauges!!!!!!! FML please!
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Silberpfeil - 09-15-2010
(01-08-2010, 09:38 PM)CID Vicious I've heard rumors of 'DIY Carbon Fiber' but I have no idea how involved/feasible/still expensive it might be.
I unfortunately have no personal experience, but talked at length with someone that worked for a high end race car restoration company (specialized in Can/Am and Group C/GTP cars).
Anywhos, he said he would find pre-impregnated carbon fiber rolls out of expiration on ebay. He said as long as it wasn't something structural he had never had a problem making things such as body parts, air intakes, etc. out of carbon fiber. He said he would just use an old oven. I've also found out that carbon fiber can be slow cured (without an oven or autoclave) but it takes 6-12 months. BTW, the slightly expired pre-impregnated rolls of carbon fiber were very reasonably priced--I believe about 1/3-1/7 the price of non-expired rolls.
Anybody here have experience or knowledge about working with carbon fiber???
Any input/suggestions hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - mike-81-240d - 11-10-2010
Hey drop would you consider vaccuforming the euro light lenses? I need some without flutting for my next project...
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - winmutt - 11-17-2010
Dropnosky, where is my A pillar gauge mount?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Captain America - 11-17-2010
Yeah yeah, what winmutt said!
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - 300D50 - 11-17-2010
He's been out giving candy to kids from his van window again, he'll be back once he runs out of snickers bars!
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 11-17-2010
(11-17-2010, 01:20 AM)300D50 He's been out giving candy to kids from his van window again, he'll be back once he runs out of snickers bars!
kids over 18, sure.
Ive been moving out of state
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - 300D50 - 11-17-2010
Wait, moving!!? What???!?!!!!
You mean we're loosing one of the few properly cared for MB's in NY to RI?
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 11-17-2010
(11-17-2010, 11:41 AM)300D50 Wait, moving!!? What???!?!!!!
You mean we're loosing one of the few properly cared for MB's in NY to RI?
What can I say? I will happily move 350 miles to pay 1/4 the health insurance for twice the benefits since im self insured. I am getting hosed right now, monthly health insurance will go from nearly 500 bucks a month down to 140 for me. I shit you not. I don't know what you pay, but thats money id rather spend on other things.
I also get to register my car under antique plates, but still be able to use it daily!
RI has a nice dual registration provision for DD antique vehicles with specialized plates, which allows you to drive around all the time, not just for parades and holidays. Plus titles are not required for over 10 years old, and there is no limit on the amount of cars sold or bought per year. I love that little model T license plate, I want that on my car.
I could make an endless argument for moving based only on a DMV comparison, ill be able to actually register my 74 with only a previous registration, and a bill of sale. I can disappear the messed up title. The same vehicle could never be registered in NY.
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - mike-81-240d - 11-18-2010
Congrats, sounds like a bundle of savings that could be spent at dervtuning...
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - 300D50 - 11-18-2010
What's RI's stance on kit cars? I might have to rent a timeshare for a day each year...
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - Silberpfeil - 11-18-2010
Hey Dropnosky how soon is the move??
And how is your newest acquisition coming along??
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - winmutt - 11-19-2010
I am moving this sat for the second time in a year.... With a weeks notice. Not fun. Of course my move is only 15miles and for many good reasons...
RE: Vacuum form headlight doors? - JB3 - 11-19-2010
(11-18-2010, 10:56 PM)Silberpfeil Hey Dropnosky how soon is the move??
And how is your newest acquisition coming along??
almost 80% done. Moved most of my stuff this last week and did all paperwork. Still have to go back and get the van, but Ill be back and forth to CNY all the time anyway, so im figuring out how to grab it and drive it down. Just a matter of train and bus schedules, I did manage to get it registered so its just a matter of driving it. We will see if such a POS can make such a long drive on the tired V6. Ill be taking a sleeping bag and rations, and will be glad for the 7 spares tires and 2 spare batteries probably!
(11-19-2010, 07:24 AM)winmutt I am moving this sat for the second time in a year.... With a weeks notice. Not fun. Of course my move is only 15miles and for many good reasons...
What? Holy shit, thats got to be a pain. Why the weeks notice? Its been an easy move for me since ive been planning this for over a year.