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+--- Thread: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D (/showthread.php?tid=858)
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - supercharged3.0 - 06-16-2010
Any updates? ))))
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-17-2010
No workie this week, I am in on a cruise in the middle of Pacific Ocean right now, had to check emails and see what was up. When I get back work will resume!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - tomnik - 06-19-2010
(06-12-2010, 08:45 PM)supercharged3.0 I can not wait to see some new pics )))))))) lol
pics??? it should be time for videos now!!!
Tom
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 06-19-2010
(06-17-2010, 08:13 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No workie this week, I am in on a cruise in the middle of Pacific Ocean right now, had to check emails and see what was up. When I get back work will resume!
You lucky sonofa... I'm stuck at work right now.
Enjoy your cruise!!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - supercharged3.0 - 07-01-2010
This is the longest cruise i have ever seen!
lol ))))
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-01-2010
(07-01-2010, 09:28 PM)supercharged3.0 This is the longest cruise i have ever seen!
lol ))))
I wish! Just been busy and working on the other project - look in the drivetrain section.
I will be working on it this weekend, I am waiting for the pump - it is done, they just want to document all the settings and do one last test.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-04-2010
Hey Rudolf, are you planning on selling some of those motor mount arms? I haven't looked yet but from a CG standpoint it might be beneficial if I could lower the motor in the chassis bit...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-04-2010
(07-04-2010, 03:45 AM)Captain America Hey Rudolf, are you planning on selling some of those motor mount arms? I haven't looked yet but from a CG standpoint it might be beneficial if I could lower the motor in the chassis bit...
I haven't planned on selling anything, but if you need help I can give you some. They were a pain in the rear to make.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-10-2010
Been busy at work, but I have done a few things that needed to be done. I drained the trans and changed the filter and bowden cable. I removed the drive shaft and replaced the support bearing and holder and I will replace the flex discs before it goes back in.
I also built a new reservoir tank for my A/W IC system. The new tank mounts where my air cleaner used to live on the passenger side behind the headlight. It holds 1.5 gallons and the whole system should be close to 3.5 when all is complete. I still need to make one more support then it gets painted - I polished it initially and it looked tits, but I just don't want the up keep. Eventually I may have my intake tubes coated, maybe a black chrome would look cool
Here is a pic of the tank:
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - willbhere4u - 07-10-2010
sweet!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-11-2010
Looks good! Yeah I hate polish too. Everything is either satin finish, clear powder coated (so it can easily be wiped off), or wrinkle blacked ...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - squirrelmaster - 07-14-2010
sorry to change the subject, dave from dervtuning has had my pump for 3 months now i cannot get a hold of him,are u having the same problem? Is he on vacation please help me. Thank you
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-14-2010
(07-14-2010, 05:58 PM)squirrelmaster sorry to change the subject, dave from dervtuning has had my pump for 3 months now i cannot get a hold of him,are u having the same problem? Is he on vacation please help me. Thank you
Not to worry, I usually hear from him once a day and they are really busy due to hot weather and gensets needing work back there.
If it makes you feel any better I shipped mine out in January and I am still waiting, but when I get it it will be bolt on and go like a striped ape
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-14-2010
A couple of pics (not real clear) of my completed tank and custom wrenches made from phenolic so I won't mar the AN fittings -
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-15-2010
Man! you made wrenches? lol The fitting don't usually mar even after wrenching on the a couple times ... Snap Off wrenches are the best because they are polished and smooth, whereas Craftsman are a little more crude
Still working on a trans connection.....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - supercharged3.0 - 07-15-2010
Holly sh@t!!!! This guy also makes some TOOOOOOOLS!!!!! OMG!!! A+++++
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - mike-81-240d - 07-21-2010
more?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-25-2010
A little more progress on the project, waiting on my pump to ship, it should be here by the end of next week. I am planning on going on a Mercedes owner cruise, open to all that want to participate, on August 21st - I am planning on have it completed by then...
A few pics:
New fittings for the A/W radiator
Oil cooler lines on filter housing
Oil cooler lines on oil cooler, I am not entirely happy with this setup - it sticks out too far for my liking. I will either weld an AN fitting or a threaded bung to accept an AN adapter. I found a fitting that would possibly work, but it lives in England and the cost is too much to not be sure if it will work.
Power steering reservoir from an older Mercedes, I think a W115, modfied with a JIC adapter brazed on the bottom
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - garage - 07-25-2010
(07-25-2010, 12:55 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am planning on going on a Mercedes owner cruise, open to all that want to participate, on August 21st - I am planning on have it completed by then...
Any more information about this cruise you speak of rudolf!??
I would love to attend
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-25-2010
(07-25-2010, 12:58 PM)garage(07-25-2010, 12:55 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am planning on going on a Mercedes owner cruise, open to all that want to participate, on August 21st - I am planning on have it completed by then...
Any more information about this cruise you speak of rudolf!??
I would love to attend
Here is the link:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=281131
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - garage - 07-25-2010
(07-25-2010, 01:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(07-25-2010, 12:58 PM)garage(07-25-2010, 12:55 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I am planning on going on a Mercedes owner cruise, open to all that want to participate, on August 21st - I am planning on have it completed by then...
Any more information about this cruise you speak of rudolf!??
I would love to attend
Here is the link:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=281131
Right on! I have hopes of attending this
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-26-2010
Hey Rudolf, what are the threads on the oil filter housing and cooler? I might be able to help with a better setup... The company I work for makes fittings.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-26-2010
(07-26-2010, 09:48 AM)Captain America Hey Rudolf, what are the threads on the oil filter housing and cooler? I might be able to help with a better setup... The company I work for makes fittings.
I am ok with the oil filter housing end, just the cooler side bugs me.
The fitting link is:
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Male_JIC_x_Female_Metric_Swivel_p/9022.htm
IIRC I ordered the 9022-08-L15-22 which is: 1/2" Male JIC x 15MM tube/ M22x1.5 female swivel
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-26-2010
Well I failed... Those JIC fittings have me confused... They are the same as AN? but to less exacting tolerances??? FML, have a look through our catalog and if something will work for you, I can get it dirt cheap. If you have questions, I have answers
http://www.professional-products.com/2010professionalproducts.pdf
This is what I did with our AN fittings for my Buell oil cooler on my bike:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/553281.html
Scroll down till you see my name with pics....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-26-2010
(07-26-2010, 02:28 PM)Captain America Well I failed... Those JIC fittings have me confused... They are the same as AN? but to less exacting tolerances??? FML, have a look through our catalog and if something will work for you, I can get it dirt cheap. If you have questions, I have answers
http://www.professional-products.com/2010professionalproducts.pdf
This is what I did with our AN fittings for my Buell oil cooler on my bike:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/553281.html
Scroll down till you see my name with pics....
JIC and AN are both 37* but as you said the AN are made to a closer tolerance, but you can interchange.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-26-2010
(07-26-2010, 10:19 AM)Rudolf_Diesel IIRC I ordered the 9022-08-L15-22 which is: 1/2" Male JIC x 15MM tube/ M22x1.5 female swivel
Ok so you need 1/2" straight or 1/2" NPT? The picture on your link looks like straight thread.
I'm thinkin one of these will work for you?
That will keep it nice and close to the cooler. What size hose are you using?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-26-2010
(07-26-2010, 03:20 PM)Captain America(07-26-2010, 10:19 AM)Rudolf_Diesel IIRC I ordered the 9022-08-L15-22 which is: 1/2" Male JIC x 15MM tube/ M22x1.5 female swivel
Ok so you need 1/2" straight or 1/2" NPT? The picture on your link looks like straight thread.
I'm thinkin one of these will work for you?
That will keep it nice and close to the cooler. What size hose are you using?
The picture is deceiving...the Mercedes Oil cooler has a M22x1.5 fitting that uses a swivel type connection.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-26-2010
Well I'll be headed home here in about 25min or so... Maybe I'll just take mine apart and see what screws into it to keep me from having to ask so many dumb questions.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ConnClark - 07-27-2010
Rudolf,
Just to check, you are running the water from the intercooler to the radiator first before returning it to the reservoir aren't you?
Otherwise you won't dump heat very fast and you ability to cool the air will suffer.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-27-2010
(07-27-2010, 02:41 PM)ConnClark Rudolf,
Just to check, you are running the water from the intercooler to the radiator first before returning it to the reservoir aren't you?
Otherwise you won't dump heat very fast and you ability to cool the air will suffer.
Yes it is running that way and the intercooler system is a stand alone system the reservoir is the starting point; Reservoir---> Intercooler---> Heat exchanger---> Reservoir (1.5 gal) the entire system should hold close to 3.5 gallons.
It looks like this:
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-27-2010
No flow arrows on your fancy schematic!?!
LOL
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-27-2010
(07-27-2010, 06:11 PM)Captain America No flow arrows on your fancy schematic!?!
LOL
It's implied, if you read the description.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-27-2010
Yeah, Yeah, just givin ya a hard time...
On the oil cooler, I had assumed that there was a female thread in the cooler, not a permanent male fitting sticking out. I thought your JIC fitting screwed into the cooler.
I now se what you mean about the fitting needed being hard to find. I'm sure you checked this out right: http://www.hydraulicfitting.com.my/products/thread-metric-hose-tail/metric-swivel-female-90-swept-elbow-24-cone-seat-dkol/
Did you look through Aeroquip's stuff?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-28-2010
What I have will work, I just don't like the way it looks.
I did check out that place, but I found this one too:
http://www.396hose.co.uk/webcat/Detprod.asp?ProductCode=T0400930
They seem to have more of what I am looking for...
Acoms Razor will dictate that I just weld NPT bungs and call it a day.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-28-2010
Oh yeah that 396 place has it! to bad their dollar sign is all weird and screwy...
Ok, so I didn't pay attention to what the cooler tanks are made from.. Aluminum? I would weld in a aluminum bung then tape it to accept a -8 (3/4-16) or -10 thread (7/8-14) so you could use one of my fittings above with an o-ring seal. that would make the fitting as close to the cooler as possible. You could do it with NPT, but there's always a small chance of galling, plus they are more permanent... but you know that!
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-28-2010
(07-28-2010, 01:26 AM)Captain America Oh yeah that 396 place has it! to bad their dollar sign is all weird and screwy...
Ok, so I didn't pay attention to what the cooler tanks are made from.. Aluminum? I would weld in a aluminum bung then tape it to accept a -8 (3/4-16) or -10 thread (7/8-14) so you could use one of my fittings above with an o-ring seal. that would make the fitting as close to the cooler as possible. You could do it with NPT, but there's always a small chance of galling, plus they are more permanent... but you know that!
The only reason I would go with a bung in lieu of a -8 AN is the fact that the hydraulic line is steel and I would prefer to have steel to steel or aluminum to aluminum. There is also the issue with the aluminum annealing after welding. Like I said, it functions fine, I may end up leaving it, but it just bugs me as to how far it sticks out.
Maybe I will see if I can make an o-ring type insert that is closer to the tank that has a -8 fitting....BTW, thanks for the effort on your part and others.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-28-2010
Yeah that would bug me too if it hung out like that.
Would it be possible to flare the stock steel swivel line and connect a new hose to that?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-29-2010
(07-28-2010, 12:48 PM)Captain America Yeah that would bug me too if it hung out like that.
Would it be possible to flare the stock steel swivel line and connect a new hose to that?
Problem solved...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-29-2010
That is exactly what I had in mind...
I want some for mine!
I'd like to see what it looks like when you get it all back together...
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-29-2010
I took the fittings to the plating company and should have them back on Saturday, I will post some pics when I get them.
I have a tight schedule and have only 16 actual days to get this completed, most of those are after work at 4 hour blocks - All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!
Any how I have made some progress and getting more parts on the car - it is almost like a puzzle to get this thing together, everything has to go on in a certain order, ask me how I know.
I made a little progress today, I need to get a spring to go inside the turbo drain line so it doesn't kink, then it goes on tomorrow as well as the intake manifold.
I have to help someone move tomorrow so Saturday and Sunday will be busy days.
Here is a pic of the turbo out and in:
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-29-2010
Are you going to use a heat shield above the turbo?
How are you connecting the oil feed line for the turbo at the oil filter housing? what fittings? I need to make one up for mine but do not know what thread the banjo is at the housing....
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 07-30-2010
Are you going to rotate the center section so the oil system can drain?
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-30-2010
(07-30-2010, 05:10 AM)ForcedInduction Are you going to rotate the center section so the oil system can drain?
Pictures are decieving, the turbo feed/ drain is at the same angle as the factory turbo, I had the same angle on my other set up and had ZERO problems.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - yankneck696 - 07-30-2010
For the oil return hose spring, if you look at the tablet chlorinators for swimming pools, the antikink spring is on the outside. Might be better, also to allow better drainige, as your engine is gonna need all the oil it can get. There's alsi "Shields" marine "exhausthose" with steel wire built into it availible at West Marine in all common sizes from 1/2" - 10" you would have to work very hard to kink it. I have used it in various applications. It's also a good suction hose as it will not collapse.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-30-2010
The inner diameter of the barb fitting is .5625" and the hose ID is .75" less the spring dimension it puts the entire hose ID at ~.5625" There is also a clearance issue with the turbo housing and the hose assembly. It leaves me just enough room to sheath the drain hose with some silicone hose cover for heat protection. The feed line has an .125" hole to feed the turbo, but I think I will open it up to .250" which is the size recommended by Garret for a sleeve bearing turbo.
I used a calculator from Gates to get these figures:
http://www.gates.com/industrial/pressure/fluidFlow.cfm
Based on a 15W-40 oil specification from Shell Rotella MSDS
Flow is just a guess, could be more or less.
HOSE DATA
Hose I.D. (in.) .5625"
Hose Length (ft.) .8'
Flow (GPM) 4
Reynolds Number 45
Viscosity 420
Velocity (ft./sec)* 5
Pressure Loss (psi.) 3.64
Pressure Drop (psi/ft.) 4.6
* Velocity must be less than 35 ft/s
Reynolds No. <= 2000 = Laminar Flow
Reynolds No. > 2000 and < 3000 = Transient Flow
Reynolds No. >= 3000 = Turbulent Flow
It seems as though I will be ok.
I appreciate the positive feed back
BTW the turbo is within the 35* tilt range recommended by Garret for proper drainage of oil return line, it flows pretty straight with a slight radius, I just want to make sure it keeps the ID consistent.
There is much work behind the scenes that I typically don't share, got to keep a few secrets, but I do a lot of research before I actually do or try to complete task at hand.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Biohazard - 07-30-2010
(07-29-2010, 11:39 PM)Captain America Are you going to use a heat shield above the turbo?
How are you connecting the oil feed line for the turbo at the oil filter housing? what fittings? I need to make one up for mine but do not know what thread the banjo is at the housing....
The banjo at the oil filter housing is 14 x 1.5mm.
I'm also curious about a heat shield above the turbo. I've been thinking of a turbo blanket or some heatshielding on the bottom of my intercooler.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-30-2010
(07-29-2010, 11:39 PM)Captain America Are you going to use a heat shield above the turbo?
How are you connecting the oil feed line for the turbo at the oil filter housing? what fittings? I need to make one up for mine but do not know what thread the banjo is at the housing....
No heat shield above the turbo, that is what the jet coat is for. The oil filter housing has a banjo bolt, IIRC it is an M14, but don't quote me. I found a kit on ebay that came with the braided hose and fittings for both sides of the hose. The turbo side has a restrictor on the adapter plate, but it seems a bit small, I may open it up a bit since I have a 3/4" hose for the drain side. The length is 36" and -4 fittings, it took a while to find one with a 90* angle and -4 swivels on both ends op the hose.
I will double check the fitting size and post it later.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Captain America - 07-30-2010
I definitely would not open up that restrictor plate! Just give James a call @ Performance Techniques before you go crazy with that plate, I know the hole looks way too small but the turbo really doesn't need much.... I hate EBay, that place is sketch! Well I have a whole warehouse with hose and fittings, so that isn't my issue. The problem I'm having is finding out what is need to connect the -4 to the oil filter housing... No one seems to know for sure. If you could check for me that would be awesome! Even with the jet hot coat there will still be some heat. On the TT mustang we built we bought some aluminum pitchers and cut them up and they worked great as heat shields to protect the hood.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - ForcedInduction - 07-30-2010
(07-30-2010, 09:17 AM)Rudolf_Diesel The turbo side has a restrictor on the adapter plate, but it seems a bit small
The orifice needs to be about 2mm or the pressure will push oil past the shaft seals.
RE: New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-30-2010
(07-30-2010, 10:28 AM)ForcedInduction(07-30-2010, 09:17 AM)Rudolf_Diesel The turbo side has a restrictor on the adapter plate, but it seems a bit small
The orifice needs to be about 2mm or the pressure will push oil past the shaft seals.
This from Garrett's Website:
Oil Supply & Drainage
Journal Bearing Turbo
Journal-bearings function similarly to rod or crank bearings in an engine - oil pressure is required to keep components separated. An oil restrictor is generally not needed except for oil-pressure-induced leakage. The recommended oil feed for journal bearing turbochargers is -4AN or hose/tubing with an ID of approximately 0.25.
Be sure to use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
Ball Bearing Turbo
An oil restrictor is recommended for optimal performance with ball bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure of 40 - 45 psi at maximum engine speed is recommended to prevent damage to the turbocharger's internals. In order to achieve this pressure, a restrictor with a 0.040' orifice will normally suffice, but you should always verify the oil pressure entering the turbo after the restrictor in insure that the components are functioning properly.
Recommended oil feed is -3AN or -4AN line or hose/tubing with a similar ID. As always, use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
OIL LEAKAGE SHOULD NOT OCCUR ON A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING
SYSTEM IF RESTRICTOR IS NOT USED UNLESS THE SYSTEM
PRESSURE IS EXCESSIVELY HIGH.
Oil Drain
In general, the larger the oil drain, the better. However, a -10AN is typically sufficient
for proper oil drainage, but try not to have an inner diameter smaller than the drain hole
in the housing as this will likely cause the oil to back up in the center housing. Speaking
of oil backing up in the center housing, a gravity feed needs to be just that! The oil
outlet should follow the direction of gravity +/-35° when installed in the vehicle on level
ground. If a gravity feed is not possible, a scavenge pump should be used to insure that
oil flows freely away from the center housing.
Avoid:
Undulations in the line or extended lengths parallel to the ground
Draining into oil pan below oil level
Dead heading into a component behind the oil pan
Area behind the oil pan (windage tray window) where oil sling occurs from crankshaft
When installing your turbocharger, insure that the turbocharger axis of rotation is parallel
to the level ground within +/- 15°. This means that the oil inlet/outlet should be within
15° of being perpendicular to level ground.
I did not have an issue with my previous turbo leaking past the seals once I got the breather situation under control. I don't think the OEM turbo has a restriction and the feed line itself will act as a restrictor, if I fuck it up then bad on me...I will start smaller and work my way up, but even 2mm (.080") is too small for my liking.
As far as a shield on top, well I guess that is what the IC is for
I will monitor temps and see what I need to do when I cross that bridge.