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+--- Thread: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. (/showthread.php?tid=7041)
7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-10-2016
Geometry in fix position.
Can't make more than 1.5bar and no smoke over 0.8-1bar
Can't add more fuel to the pump.
External AC is a 044. 5.5L/Min after the pump.
Do you guys have idea?
Pump problem?
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - hooblah - 02-10-2016
You have a VGT turbo in a fixed position? I think I've found your problem lol.
What's your EMP?
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-10-2016
Tired with fixed and with a wastegate 'ball' that start work about 0.5bar and opening the valve.
Open it more?
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - hooblah - 02-10-2016
Hang on, I just reread that! You're saying you want to make smoke?
No smoke indicates all the fuel is being burnt. To get more boost you need to introduce more fuel. When you start running rich you will then see smoke. Your boost and power will also increase.
What CC is your pump set to? And why can't you increase fuelling? With a 7.5mm pump you should be able to see around 140cc.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - barrote - 02-11-2016
hehe, hooblah is correct , without fuel u cant get the turbo to spool properly and 1.5 bar is something!!!
Maybe that he351 set can´t produce much more than 1.5 bar with resonably low EGP.
The thing with the variable geometry turbochargers , variable vanes, what ever are they called , they produce boost early cause they can shape the exaust flow , or better said Turbine A/R , to a certain point , after that A/R must increase to decrease EGP , and when this happens some continue to build boost others stick to the choke line, they cant increase boost without increasing EGP tremendously!!!
but this character has a lot to do with the hot section , turbine size nr of blades dada trim dadda. wich can be made to be more eficiente...
the compressor maters litle a 60mm compressor whell will push 3 bar if powered , it may melt during this atempt, but as i said the turbine is the key!!!
Maybe some other members running the HE351V may report max boost , that would be interesting to compare!!!
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - hooblah - 02-11-2016
Most interesting. I have also heard that the turbine chokes the flow on th he351ve. This seems odd to me as the vanes are able to open from 4-25cm. Perhaps my understandings a bit off, but shouldn't that be more than enough?
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 02-11-2016
There is now a 10 blade 67mm x70mm turbine available for these turbos.
I plan on swapping mine during the summer.
I haven't mapped my car yet with the 8mm pump.
So can't comment on boost or egp just yet.
But I believe the 60mm 12 blade turbine doesn't help at all.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - barrote - 02-11-2016
the phenomena is like opening an umbrela to the wind , depending on how stong the wind is!!!
its not the turbine that chokes , is the turbine ability to generate drive force, basically is what i was talking above, personally i have made trials with the garret style VNT´s wich can´t open the beforementioned 25mm , and all the exaust must flow between the vanes, when it is too much it starts to build EGP irespective of the vanes position, not cause the turbine chokes but cause the escape route is too narrow for that much flow, and of course the turbine has drive force limit.... once reached maybe a bigger or less vanes one may help...
not sure , but compounding one of this may be the road...
BTW does anyone know a Garret VNT bigger than GT23V???
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 02-11-2016
Gt3067v from some ford power strokes I believe.
But its oil pressure controlled. And worked worse than the he351ve from what I've heard.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-11-2016
I still love my he351ve
Need more fuel.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - barrote - 02-11-2016
no one is saying that the 351 is a bad choice,
we are just arguing that sometimes the turbine is what it is and thats it... but there are other turbines available in the market!!! despite many change the compressor, including me , sometimes the turbine is the big game, hard to discover but nevertheless the big game...
actually i´m very interested in knowing how your 351 will hold after the small job we are about to do to it....
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-11-2016
I will remove it tomorrow! ☺
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - erx - 02-11-2016
What pump do you have, who made it and what cc of max fuel? If you have 7,5mm pump turned to max fuel and boost is only 1 bar then it should smoke like crazy no matter what turbo are you using, you have something wrong with your fuel system. I have 180cc 7,5mm pump and it smokes even with 3bar boost and makes over 500hp.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-11-2016
Dieselmeken elements and made in Hungary and don't know the CC.
I will remove the PUMP today!
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - erx - 02-14-2016
(02-11-2016, 07:52 PM)deviance Dieselmeken elements and made in Hungary and don't know the CC.
I will remove the PUMP today!
I recommend dieselmeken made pump, yes it is a little cheaper to buy elements and then let local dieselshop to install them but it may not give the best result. Dieselmeken adds adjustable ALDA and gives lifetime warranty, even if pump is sold to another person. Second good thing is that later you can sell dieselmeken made pump with very good price.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - JVance - 02-14-2016
(02-11-2016, 01:58 PM)seanyt Gt3067v from some ford power strokes I believe.
But its oil pressure controlled. And worked worse than the he351ve from what I've heard.
GT3782va is quite a bit larger than the GT3067, found on the 6.0L Powerstrokes. The solenoid can be controlled using a PWM signal.
I run the GT3782 on a 2.3L gasoline engine, spools fairly quickly for the size of the compressor (GT37). Both the GT3067 and GT3782 have ridiculously wide compressor maps, unlike anything Garrett sells to the aftermarket. If you can't get a Garret vgt to work well, either you don't have enough oil flow/pressure going to the actuator, the vanes are seized, or whatever controller you're using isn't programmed/working properly.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 02-14-2016
(02-14-2016, 12:57 PM)erx(02-11-2016, 07:52 PM)deviance Dieselmeken elements and made in Hungary and don't know the CC.
I will remove the PUMP today!
I recommend dieselmeken made pump, yes it is a little cheaper to buy elements and then let local dieselshop to install them but it may not give the best result. Dieselmeken adds adjustable ALDA and gives lifetime warranty, even if pump is sold to another person. Second good thing is that later you can sell dieselmeken made pump with very good price.
This is TRUE!
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 03-06-2016
Been playing around with vein position on my controller.
With them set closed (3-5cm2 range) you wont get more then 0.4 bar and loads of egp.
With them gradually opened boost rises but engine feels stuffed in higher revs due to the restriction outlet .
With them opened further i get easily 1.6-1.8 bar and pulls strong.
Waiting on a 75psia (4 Bar) sensor to go with my 100psia (5 Bar) pressure sensor and i will be able to see actual egt and boost etc.
Then i will program the controller based on rpm/ tps and egp to give desired manifold pressure.
It doesn't feel laggy at all so i reckon with intelligent control of the veins should you good results.
Plan is still to fit the larger 67mm 10blade turbine wheel though.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 03-06-2016
I got now 140ccm and 1.9Bar
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 03-07-2016
What way are you controlling your veins?
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - deviance - 03-07-2016
Pressure controlled ball
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - TurboTim - 05-30-2016
I got 30psi on mine with spring. I do really want someone to try that bigger wheel for our turbos and see how it does. I just don't want to be the first...
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - whipplem104 - 05-30-2016
Have you guys ever considered just running a waste gate to bypass some exhaust flow around the turbo. Seems like if the problem is just getting exhaust through the turbo that you could start dumping exhaust through a wastegate and still let the vanes run the boost control. Just set the w/g to start opening at a low boost level that the egp is fairly reasonable. Or do an rpm window switch to keep it closed until higher rpms.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 05-31-2016
i believe someone ran two wastegate on a he351ve and still had backpressure problems past 2-2.2bar boost
Im currently converting my car to 6-speed manual from automatic but have the 10 blade 67mm wheel in possession.
Just need to order a 60mm billet wheel and i can rebuild my spare turbo and record the results.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - TurboTim - 05-31-2016
I don't think anyone is having back pressure problems. It seems that the problem is the exhaust wheel isn't big enough to turn compressor wheel to any higher boost numbers.
RE: 7.5 Elements HE351VE. No smoke over 1bar. - seanyt - 05-31-2016
Well im the guinea pig this time, wont be till next month id imagine before all is ready.
Im also waiting on a 50psi(a) pressure sensor.
So my ecu will see upto 2.4 bar boost
But i have 75psi(a) sensors for map and egp going to a display i have so i can see more boost if it goes to it.