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+--- Thread: IP / CC / HP (/showthread.php?tid=6925)
IP / CC / HP - liQuid - 12-13-2015
Hello everyone !
I'm just lookin for information, and i think they gonna be useful for newbie
So let's say engine is stock om606 with correct boost and
How it gonna looks like
5.5mm / stable cc / power
6mm / stable cc / power
7mm / stable cc / power
7.5mm / stable cc / power
8mm / stable cc / power
Who have knowlage and experience please answer
Just in theory, cuz we all know stock engine with 8mm with max fuel gonna explode
I need that info to decide which ip gonna be good for me, and what power will i have, it's good start to me.
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-13-2015
HP is not a question of cc, taking the case of a stock engine as na exemple , if u feed it with 200cc u going to have 30HP cylinder and a lot of smoke down the pipe.
explosion!!! no it does not explode!!! it makes smoke
and in some cases it may melt something on the way.... but with enough air.I can´t understand your point with stable cc, as a 8mm pump can be set to stock values. like 60 to 65cc.
Usually the thing works the other way round... lets say a stock engine, with the intention to keep it that way a increase in 25% fueling will do the trick, and most probably increase the power to 20%. give it or take...
more than that diff type of pump will be needed, turbo , IC porting dddadada valves springs cams all the fancy things we speak here....
there are no 4 valve engines with mechanical pumps except the N/A versions and those only at some point this mech pump is 5.5mm element at 20mm rack delivery is max 80cc.
a 6mm element wich can be found in some mech pumps have a output of 70cc max irespective of rack travel maxes out at 16mm.
some 6mm found in the EDC pumps, wich are common to 4 valve engines turbo versions, can give 100cc depending on the pump it is mounted.
the 7mm element , i know from bosch is 80cc restricted by max travell, works well but is 80cc max.
the rest of the elements , 7.5 , 8, 8.5mm are custom made and some 7mm made in china.
this ones differ a lot in construction quality , inljection quantity and so on.
i can do a IP for u, i dont guaranty HP, i jjust say it will deliver X or Y fuel depending on what u want. the engine building/eficiency is up to u...
anything else just ask , or read there´s a lot of info around and snake fat too.
regards
RE: IP / CC / HP - liQuid - 12-13-2015
but that alot of smoke its making high egt, and high egt gonna kill your engine mate
i just wonder how to calculate hp from cc with correct air boost.
i want to buy a pump, and they ask me what CC i want from X ip, but i dont know what HP can i get from XX cc, you know what i mean ?
so i need to know, how many cc can i get from x ip, and what power can i get from x cc, maybe it's a little bit strange for you guys, but i just want to buy a correct ip with correct ip to get power i want. I have option of 7mm, and i wonder if it's gonna be enough to me, so thats why i acctualy ask about. i hope you can help me fellas
RE: IP / CC / HP - erx - 12-13-2015
(12-13-2015, 05:32 PM)liQuid but that alot of smoke its making high egt, and high egt gonna kill your engine mate
i just wonder how to calculate hp from cc with correct air boost.
i want to buy a pump, and they ask me what CC i want from X ip, but i dont know what HP can i get from XX cc, you know what i mean ?
so i need to know, how many cc can i get from x ip, and what power can i get from x cc, maybe it's a little bit strange for you guys, but i just want to buy a correct ip with correct ip to get power i want. I have option of 7mm, and i wonder if it's gonna be enough to me, so thats why i acctualy ask about. i hope you can help me fellas
Tell us what engine and turbo do you have and what hp are you looking for, then we tell you what cc you need.
RE: IP / CC / HP - soltysrsz - 12-14-2015
So if i want 400 hp non smoke car (om606), what ip, turbo, supercharger i need to use??
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-14-2015
400 HP without smoke , hummmm naaaa.
the thing behind 400HP is about 65HP cylinder, i belive a bit hard to get without some other changes, and this changes will turn your sleepy MB engine in a custom made half competition type, and then u got to have smoke.... if u want 65HP cylinder without smoke u must search for a BMW 335 , or a E400.
65HP cylinder, need about 130/140cc acording to my knowledge, but depend how u will achieve that!!! The formula for that is something like Tq *RPM / 5252,( values in pound/feet). just by looking at the formula u can see that we can argue for many days to come...
usually people hook holsets 40and 45 and turn the engine at 6k and they achieve the desired 50HP cylinder with 140cc. some fuel is wated in smoke the other is wasted in power....
well, hooking a holset 40 crap to a 606 engine will make it a drag type car, dificult to drive, with some power lag in it.... usually i loose my time in street racer type engines where the power is there very few lag, and like this despite my engines reach 6k they have the peak tq at 3 to 4k as u can see from the formula will end up in a lower HP. but what drives u forward is Tq not HP.
Contact mr Dieselmeken he´s a good fella, wiling to help u, even with the pump...
Regards
RE: IP / CC / HP - EvoPeter - 12-14-2015
My om605 with Dieselmeken 7,5mm 150cc external ALDA just make a little puff of smoke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtmZctLafvE
My om602 without smoke limiter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQN13WGxvk
RE: IP / CC / HP - maxypriest - 12-14-2015
8.00mm pump/HX40 super/om606 and a few other choice mods has given me a very streetable 450bhp/456ftt/lbs.
Propper power from 3000 onwards. Economy below that.
Also when i have the boost alda turned off i have about 300 bhp (arse dyno) and when on boost no smoke at all. Transtitional stage a bit smokey if you apply too much throttle.
RE: IP / CC / HP - hooblah - 12-14-2015
How do you find the idle and day-to-dayness with the 8mm pump?
RE: IP / CC / HP - maxypriest - 12-15-2015
She idles beautifully. Good bit of diesel knock and when the GP timer goes off it hunts a bit, then settles down then sometimes hunts a bit, but nothing at all bad. Once it has been running for 1 min you can’t stall it by trying to flood the engine if you catch my drift. Picks up revs like nobody’s business – almost bike like. The only issue I have is a touch of diesel jerk/bonanza effect in 1-3rd gears, but you can drive around that easily.
RE: IP / CC / HP - maxypriest - 12-15-2015
I really need to do a proper YouTube vid as there are many questions that I had before I started this project about power delivery, smoke, drivability etc that a 10 min review would answer. I’m 99% positive that I’m not the only one with these questions!
I have not produced a vid before and my PC at home is so antiquated that I suspect editing and uploading would be impossible. But I must try.
RE: IP / CC / HP - DiseaselWeasel - 12-15-2015
OP wants to know how many cc of fuel equates how much power - and how much cc of air per cc of fuel is needed to burn all fuel and therefore unleash all the power. That's the question as I understand it.
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-15-2015
who has the answer to that???
maybe some MB engeneer, or a german cientist...
i´m very keen about knowing that , seing that table...
RE: IP / CC / HP - atypicalguy - 12-15-2015
The AFR part is simple. Somewhere from 12:1 to 18:1, depending upon how clean you want the exhaust. Fins say smoke is fast but egt is apparently the limit with excess fuel.
BSFC is over 300g/kwh. Divide by 1.34 to get g/hp then divide by 0.85 to get cc from g. Divide by number of cylinders. Divide by # of thousands of cycles per minute eg 2 at 4000rpm. Now you have cc/1000 cycles per injector per hp. Multiply by target horses.
At least that is how I see it without running any numbers.
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-16-2015
well, that´s to knoty to my head, if its that simple chalenge u to write a table , just with 3.5k 4k and 300 /350/ 400 HP then we can interpolate the numbers.
regards
RE: IP / CC / HP - raysorenson - 12-16-2015
http://foo.is/calc/dieselpower.html
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-16-2015
thats something ,
and wich numbers should i use for a 4 valve engine regarding specific fuel consumption, the 4 valve MB engine?
thanks
RE: IP / CC / HP - atypicalguy - 12-16-2015
As I wrote above, 300 is not a bad number to start with.but it is probably worse than that at high rpm.
RE: IP / CC / HP - barrote - 12-16-2015
guesses , yep someone one day pointed out .5 wich seems to me not reasonable enough...
RE: IP / CC / HP - atypicalguy - 12-16-2015
Sorry the metric bsfc number would be 300g per kilowatt per hour. Convert to lb/hp/hr for that calculator.
RE: IP / CC / HP - atypicalguy - 12-16-2015
300 g/kwh is 0.493 lb/hph