OM606, W210 - Printable Version

OM606, W210 - Printable Version

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OM606, W210 - MAMG - 11-27-2013

Hello,

my name is Janko, i am 22 years old and from Holland
i recently bought an e50 amg, with broken engine.
and i want to swap an om606 td in to it.
allready have a donor car but i want some more horses in it.
i can buy a nearly new garett gt30bb turbo, is this a good turbo to use? and how much horsepower with some pumpmodification?

thanks in advance

-Janko[/align]

RE: OM606, W210 - sassparilla_kid - 11-28-2013

Welcome to the forum!! And that looks like a pretty big turbo, although with some pump modification it should be fine. I'm pretty sure there's guys on here using Holset HX35 or Holset HX40 turbos or even bigger, so I have a feeling yours should work fine

RE: OM606, W210 - Ksteen2 - 11-29-2013

hello, that would be a fine low end turbo, with lots of low to mid end torqe, or thats if it has the 0.63 ar housing
I've seen them use alot bigger turbo's, I use a HX52-w and thats a good fit.

RE: OM606, W210 - Tito - 11-29-2013

I use a 7mm pump and a hx35 on a 603 and it's a good match. Spools up nicely. Very common setup on these engines. I recon I can get 300 hp out of it but haven't had time yet.

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 01-13-2014

finally some updates on the car..

[Image: 1zfn59w.jpg]

the e50 and the old e300 turbo diesel
[Image: 292saci.jpg]

the transmission out
[Image: 5nrjoz.jpg]

engine out
[Image: de2zns.jpg]

empty engine bay
[Image: 308wbdg.jpg]

engine disassembled
[Image: 2h58rww.jpg]

donor car

transmission out of the donor
[Image: 21b4pis.jpg]

the mighty om606 out Smile

and now the fun part begins, all of the wires of the diesel car have to be changed with the amg Confused

everything labeled and change it plug by plug and make it look like oem Big Grin

everything labeled in the amg
and now the engine in the amg Smile

the diesel pipes and tank build in the amg
[Image: 9hoygx.jpg]

also i sandblasted the amg engine and made 4 pistons on top of it and sprayed it grey and now it's an AMG table Big Grin

and i also have a question. my oil cooler is broken and now i want a bigger one. does someone knows wich one fits?
and when the engine runs, i want the car to make between the 400 and 450 hp. wich dieselpump and turbo would be good to use?

and please forgive my bad english Big Grin

best regards Janko

RE: OM606, W210 - maxypriest - 01-13-2014

Great work janko, a ballsy conversion.

RE: OM606, W210 - erling66 - 01-13-2014

If you make all the electric stuff to work fine, I am very impressed Smile

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 01-14-2014

Thanks guys!
It will al come together, but right now i'm busy with other things Sad

And if someone has answers for my last question, i will be very pleased

- Janko

RE: OM606, W210 - Druk - 01-14-2014

You need the mechanical injection pump from a W124 300TD and send it to Dieselmeken (on here) for upgrading the elements. stock 6mm elements from the .962 electric pump will fit straight in but wont give any power increase. DM has uprated 7mm elements.

http://www.dieselmeken.se/

ps..'bad English'? ha ha ha...you should come to Scotland sometime for some of that. Big Grin

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-15-2014

Neat project! GT30 is roughly a 300hp turbo. For 400-450hp i.e. HX40 super with #16 housing and 7mm elements for the pump.

Druk: fitting a mechanical would have saved nearly all the harness work, but since it's been done, why not upgrade elements on the electronic pump?

RE: OM606, W210 - Druk - 01-15-2014

(01-15-2014, 05:47 AM)muuris Druk: fitting a mechanical would have saved nearly all the harness work, but since it's been done, why not upgrade elements on the electronic pump?

That would be good, but nowhere on this thread does it tell me the wiring of a V8 has been mated successfully to the diesel ECU. Huh

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-15-2014

(01-15-2014, 08:03 AM)Druk That would be good, but nowhere on this thread does it tell me the wiring of a V8 has been mated successfully to the diesel ECU.

(01-13-2014, 01:44 PM)MAMG and now the fun part begins, all of the wires of the diesel car have to be changed with the amg

Shouldn't be that bad, after all he can use factory harnesses, V8 harness is swapped to diesel one. The story doesn't tell, but I assume Janko is going to use stock diesel 722.6 transmission? If the AMG box is fine, I'd seriously consider adapting that to the engine.

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 01-15-2014

thanks for the nice and helpful reply's
yes the wiring of the diesel is now in the amg.
we will use the diesel transmission for now, till the engine runs and everything is 100%
and the amg transmission looks to be bigger then the diesel transmission. i will upload some pics soon so you can see the difference.
so can i use the elektronic dieselpump or not?

- Janko

RE: OM606, W210 - Druk - 01-15-2014

(01-15-2014, 11:56 AM)MAMG so can i use the elektronic dieselpump or not?

- Janko

You'll need the throttle interface from the diesel car if there isn't one on the V8 and that needs to 'talk' to the diesel ECU as well as does the gearbox and instrument cluster. If the V8 wiring loom and ECU plugs are compatible to the diesel ECU then you're onto a winner. If not then you have a lot of work.

RE: OM606, W210 - Tito - 01-15-2014

Using the electrical diesel pump is going to be a big worry. The rack position sensor gives some weird signal which is hard to intercept and fool the stock ecu. I also doubt it's going to communicate with the rest of the car, and not throwing fault codes.

Using a mechanical pump would also give you some problems since there's no ecu at all for the rest to communicate with.

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 01-15-2014

Thank You for thinking with me but the wiring loom is almost in the AMG from the diesel. So that is going to work in a couple of weeks, too long because i'm busy with work etc. So the main question is, can you tune the electronical pump?

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-16-2014

(01-15-2014, 12:34 PM)Tito Using the electrical diesel pump is going to be a big worry.

No it wont.

(01-15-2014, 12:34 PM)Tito The rack position sensor gives some weird signal which is hard to intercept and fool the stock ecu. I also doubt it's going to communicate with the rest of the car, and not throwing fault codes.

Rack position sensor? Both electr. pump and ecu from donor = no problem. If pump is tapped with 7mm elements, there's no point fooling rack pos sensor, ecu has to be reprogrammed. And besides, fooling the rack sensor with stock ecu is really simple.

When I looked at schematics of my c250td (basically same ecu etc as e300td) I didn't see the wiring too complicated.. not sure about immobilizer-related wiring, if any. They can be a bit of a headache, but doable, hence the donor car and the ability to transfer all the harnesses from it.

If using mechanical pump, then the electronic control of the transmission wouldn't work at all and one would need a stand-alone controller for that.

(01-15-2014, 02:58 PM)MAMG So the main question is, can you tune the electronical pump?

Just as well as the mechanical one. On mechanical pump one has to build a suitable governor in the pump, on the electronic the ecu has to be reprogrammed. With electronics it's easier to tune the engine and tranny to act as if it was a powerful diesel by AMG with operational traction control, low smoke on emission test, low/no smoke on low boost etc..

Janko, in my opinion you're doing it the right way, thumbs up!

RE: OM606, W210 - mantahead - 01-16-2014

hi,
nice project.

the problem i had with electronic pump was rpm, couldn't get over 5500rpm on the pull with fuel dropping off at about 4900rpm.
i had all rev limiters removed by remap guy. I have spoke to a few guys about this and unless the program could be rescaled it doesn't seem to be able for any more rpm.
although i would like to see someone else try.
maybe 5500rpm is ok for your car or maybe you will find a way around it.

just my experience with it.

dynograph on electronic pump with 7.5mm element. om605 with hx35

[Image: utf-8BSU1HMDA1NDUtMjAxMTEwMTUtMTYzNS5qcGc.jpg]

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-17-2014

I'm pretty sure there's just a limiter your remap guy haven't found. If that's really the case, I don't see why couldn't one just fool rpm sensor on crank, either removing one of the taps or using electronics to do the rescaling.

With 7mm IP maxed out, max power will be around that 4900rpm, even with mechanical pump -- because of relatively long injection duration. 8mm for 6000rpm and up Big Grin

RE: OM606, W210 - mantahead - 01-17-2014

yea, would be nice to try that with flywheel tabs to fool rpm.

RE: OM606, W210 - F.R.A.S - 01-18-2014

Nice swap.

Here is my input. If I did this build I would have used all of the AMG wiring as it was, with the AMG ecu. That would make the car work as it is supposed to. Then use a mechanical pump! Locating the immobilizer wires from the AMG ecu and make them work with the new engine, like stop solenoid and fuelpump so you'll have some safety around the car when parking it. If the ecu would make DTCs, just go to your local tuner and make him remove them from the software.

Changing the harness and so on makes for some problem. Instrument and such. Yea, for sure if you have already made it happen. But it's still a bad idea to use the electronic pump... So same story with the wiring as if you had just left the AMG in.

Regarding dieselpump, use a hig RS-numberd om603 pump, send it to Dieselmeken and let him fit the external ALDA and some 8mm elements and you're good to go.

The Gt30bb is that a gt3076r or a gt3071r? And what A/R? The gt3076r A/R 0.63 or 0.82 is a good 600hp turbo on a e85 driven engine. On a diesel that should be enough for 400hp. The A/R 0.82 with some more top end and the A/R 0.63 with good response and minimum lag. The gt3071r is a 300hp turbo for diesel applications. And for last the A/R 0.48 is to small for a 3-liter...

Oilcooler then. If you can find the heat exchanger from a c250tdt that's an awesome swap. Otherwise the m103 filter housing fits and you can use an external cooler.

/ F

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-18-2014

(01-18-2014, 05:08 AM)F.R.A.S If I did this build I would have used all of the AMG wiring as it was, with the AMG ecu. That would make the car work as it is supposed to. Then use a mechanical pump!

I disagree. Transmission wouldn't work at all without input from diesel ecu (AMG ecu + mechanical pump couldn't control it) and traction control etc features would be gone as well.

(01-18-2014, 05:08 AM)F.R.A.S Oilcooler then. If you can find the heat exchanger from a c250tdt that's an awesome swap.

I'd be glad to change my 605 heat exchanger setup to 606 oil cooler. Oil warms quickly on normal driving but will quickly get too hot when flooring it, even in winter. Never had such problems with 606+BMW oil cooler.

RE: OM606, W210 - F.R.A.S - 01-18-2014

Automatically thought of a manual transmission swap.

(01-18-2014, 07:41 AM)muuris I disagree. Transmission wouldn't work at all without input from diesel ecu (AMG ecu + mechanical pump couldn't control it) and traction control etc features would be gone as well.

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 01-18-2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP0QNoqA2Ec
just found this movie on the net i dont really understand what he is doing but maybe you guys do?
today again busy with the car, new problems occured... Undecided

fuseboxes are not the same as the diesel, so i have to read the technical wiring layout of both of the cars.
i dont know what turbo the gt30bb is, i only know it's a gt30bb and i couldn't find something on the net.
thanks for your help guys, i really appreciate it Smile

-Janko

RE: OM606, W210 - Hario' - 01-19-2014

Diesenmeken can fit big (7.5mm) elements into electronic pump for you.

Electronic and mechanical pumps are functionally identical apart from mechanical has a governor and electronic has a solenoid (ecu governs it).

RE: OM606, W210 - muuris - 01-20-2014

Seems there really is rpm limit on automatic ecu's. In the video Janko posted, ecu was apparently fooled with a separate microcontroller to avoid ecu limp mode. If the problem is related to both tranny and motor speed sensors, it means both need to be fooled (rescaled), I'd use a microcontroller as well for the job, and then rescale ecu fuel map respectively. I.e. convert pulses so the 4800rpm limit is at 6500rpm.

Another option is to control both electronic inline pump and transmission via standalone controller, even a good microcontroller could handle both since there is much less information to deal with than in CDI/petrol engine ecu.

This all can be ignored until you find the 4800rpm limit annoying Wink

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 06-24-2014

it's been a long time guys..

not so much to update with.
have a problem with the car, the fusebox from the amg is different than the diesel..
so what do you think, change all the wires? also from inside of the car.
or what option is left?
or mech pump and manual gearbox?
please help me with this Huh

RE: OM606, W210 - EDH_Performance - 06-24-2014

(06-24-2014, 04:11 AM)MAMG it's been a long time guys..

not so much to update with.
have a problem with the car, the fusebox from the amg is different than the diesel..
so what do you think, change all the wires? also from inside of the car.
or what option is left?
or mech pump and manual gearbox?
please help me with this

Big mechanical IP and olejefer`s ecu for the 722.6 transmission!
Then you have full control on fuelamount and gearbox Wink

RE: OM606, W210 - giorgosktel82 - 06-24-2014

(06-24-2014, 04:11 AM)MAMG it's been a long time guys..

not so much to update with.
have a problem with the car, the fusebox from the amg is different than the diesel..
so what do you think, change all the wires? also from inside of the car.
or what option is left?
or mech pump and manual gearbox?
please help me with this

hello!
the basic difference is that the 300 td is with the new electronic (plastic) key and the e 50 has the old mechanical key.
the better solution for me is to put the electronic key with all parts of 300 td because this system uses 10 years newer technology than the other and your car will work better
i have done 2 times this conversion in the past
one form e50 to e55
and the other from e250 diesel to e250 turbodiesel
so i know what you must change to update your car and if you do the job with the correct series you will need about one week.
if you will decide to do this update i will help you with all details.

RE: OM606, W210 - MAMG - 07-06-2014

oke, so you know how to do it the right way.
what is needed to swap, can you post some pictures maybe?
sorry for the late reply but i work at sea for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks free at home Smile

but at sea i have no signal..