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+--- Thread: OM 606 with twin VE pump (/showthread.php?tid=4601)
OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 05-24-2013
Hi,
What you think about twin VE pump (2x12x2.2-2.4)?
I would build that kind of VE pump for a full tunning engine. (250+ ccm)
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 05-29-2013
(05-24-2013, 06:28 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
What you think about twin VE pump (2x12x2.2-2.4)?
I would build that kind of VE pump for a full tunning engine. (250+ ccm)
(05-29-2013, 08:41 AM)offroaddieselhu(05-24-2013, 06:28 AM)offroaddieselhu Hi,
What you think about twin VE pump (2x12x2.2-2.4)?
I would build that kind of VE pump for a full tunning engine. (250+ ccm)
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-02-2013
imagination of twin pumps
(06-02-2013, 11:39 AM)offroaddieselhu imagination of twin pumps
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - OM616 - 06-02-2013
Are you planning on using 2 injectors per cylinder or tying the lines together some how?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-02-2013
the pre-injection precision how much you how much advantage can be exploited to a full engine tuning?
(06-02-2013, 04:50 PM)OM616 Are you planning on using 2 injectors per cylinder or tying the lines together some how?
One of the two injectors per cylinder, pump capacities would like to take advantage of
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - MFSuper90 - 06-02-2013
Two three cylinder pumps?
Better yet, why not use a Single VE pump with a 14mm head
14mm pump
. Capable of 300+ cc
Or use a stock one probably capable a 200+ (maybe??)
Dieselmeken should chime in right about now
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-03-2013
I would like to put two VE pumps on one engine.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - dieselmeken - 06-03-2013
(06-03-2013, 03:43 AM)offroaddieselhu I would like to put two VE pumps on one engine.Ofcourse, and you know how to do it, thats for sure.I can only provide you with 220-230cc & 6000 rpm full load for the moment.
Is it beltdrive in this build?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-03-2013
(06-03-2013, 12:55 PM)dieselmeken(06-03-2013, 03:43 AM)offroaddieselhu I would like to put two VE pumps on one engine.Ofcourse, and you know how to do it, thats for sure.I can only provide you with 220-230cc & 6000 rpm full load for the moment.
Is it beltdrive in this build?
In this technical word the beltdrive is not problem anymore
One pump is able to 220 cc.
For the pump is only the direct injector is hard.
Pre-chamber injectors are more easier for pump.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - MFSuper90 - 06-03-2013
what is the purpose for using two?
And how what pumps would you use? two three cylinder pumps?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-04-2013
(06-03-2013, 09:36 PM)MFSuper90 what is the purpose for using two?
And how what pumps would you use? two three cylinder pumps?
I will use 2 pcs 6 cylinder pump 12x225-2.5
The purpose is more dynamic injection.
In every case the change of inline pump to distributor pump is better solution. In case of tunnig the negativ things always intensiver as like the positiv.
If I put to an OM616 a distributor pump and everything is change in positiv, than I think it will be stronger in tunning.
With two pumps the system will have spare.
Offroaddiesel
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-04-2013
(06-03-2013, 02:32 PM)offroaddieselhu(06-03-2013, 12:55 PM)dieselmeken(06-03-2013, 03:43 AM)offroaddieselhu I would like to put two VE pumps on one engine.Ofcourse, and you know how to do it, thats for sure.I can only provide you with 220-230cc & 6000 rpm full load for the moment.
Is it beltdrive in this build?
In this technical word the beltdrive is not problem anymore
One pump is able to 220 cc.
For the pump is only the direct injector is hard.
Pre-chamber injectors are more easier for pump.
Offroaddieselhu
Why do you prefer 6000rpm as a limit (end) of pump?
And why just 220cc?
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - Alastair E - 06-05-2013
Hmmm.......
Two 6-pot pumps, on a 6-pot engine.....WHY??
12 Injectors?
--WHERE are you gonna put the extra 6 injectors--In the glow-plug holes I guess, but then--How you gonna get the bugger to start!
Combined fuelling into the existing 6 injectors?
--BEST of luck with THAT!--Do you REALLY know the dynamics involved at the SONIC level in a diesel-injection high-pressure system.....?--Fuel does NOT flow in a conventional way at injection-speeds and pressures--It flows in a wave--at the speed of sound--in that fluid.....
I see logic of using a VE Distributor-pump, but NOT the logic of using Two discrete pumps 6 cyl.--On the Same Engine--Just a daft idea IMHO!....
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-05-2013
i had a quick thought one time about using 2 inline pumps but then i discovered bigger elements and then, Dieselmeken.
if your two pumps are not perfect timed your going to have one hell of a long injection duration.
would it not be easier to fit a big element pump?
although i would like to see 2 pumps working
i'm nearly sure twin pumps has been done in the tractor pulling world.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-05-2013
(06-05-2013, 03:21 PM)Alastair E Hmmm.......
Two 6-pot pumps, on a 6-pot engine.....WHY??
12 Injectors?
--WHERE are you gonna put the extra 6 injectors--In the glow-plug holes I guess, but then--How you gonna get the bugger to start!
Combined fuelling into the existing 6 injectors?
--BEST of luck with THAT!--Do you REALLY know the dynamics involved at the SONIC level in a diesel-injection high-pressure system.....?--Fuel does NOT flow in a conventional way at injection-speeds and pressures--It flows in a wave--at the speed of sound--in that fluid.....
I see logic of using a VE Distributor-pump, but NOT the logic of using Two discrete pumps 6 cyl.--On the Same Engine--Just a daft idea IMHO!....
If you do not understand, don't rebuke me!
(06-05-2013, 05:15 PM)mantahead i had a quick thought one time about using 2 inline pumps but then i discovered bigger elements and then, Dieselmeken.
if your two pumps are not perfect timed your going to have one hell of a long injection duration.
would it not be easier to fit a big element pump?
although i would like to see 2 pumps working
i'm nearly sure twin pumps has been done in the tractor pulling world.
think again
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-06-2013
(06-05-2013, 05:15 PM)mantahead i had a quick thought one time about using 2 inline pumps but then i discovered bigger elements and then, Dieselmeken.
if your two pumps are not perfect timed your going to have one hell of a long injection duration.
would it not be easier to fit a big element pump?
although i would like to see 2 pumps working
i'm nearly sure twin pumps has been done in the tractor pulling world.
2 elements are working together (in paralelle) the time will be half of it.
It is not sure that the two elements must be sincronizated,
a small difference in time will result in a dose-pilot, you will need to be. 220 cc was injected into half time. 5 - '10% of Time Out period is still within the ideal companion.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-06-2013
keep up the good work, nice to see something different and keep us posted.
here is tractor with twin pumps.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - MFSuper90 - 06-06-2013
Common rail engines inject into the engine at like 7 different times. So as long as he is very close on timing is should work.
Scheid diesel tried this, they ran a 12cyl duetz pump on a 6bt cummins. But they ran two injection lines into one injector
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - dieselmeken - 06-06-2013
(06-03-2013, 12:55 PM)dieselmeken Why do you prefer 6000rpm as a limit (end) of pump?6000 rpm is the limit I have set, just because when I lightening the governor weight, this is how light I can do it without hunting on low idle.
And why just 220cc?
Offroaddieselhu
I did a 6500-7000rpm to Mantaheads OM605, but that engine would not idle good, hard to drive etc.
Therefore I have set 6000 rpm full load as max.
Also one other issue is that the valvesprings in OM60X engines need to bee replaced for higher rpm.
Max power/tourqe is at 4500-5000 rpm, so actually high rews is nothing to go for in a stock car, but for race / drifting etc they need these rpm I think, If customers want it,I do it.
220-230cc is for the moment the maximum fuel output I get from the 8 mm serie 3 elements, no need to put the adjuster in the bottom,not many engines can take this fuel with good result, 180cc @7,5mm is good for nearley 100hp / cyl 3,2bar boost pressure.
Go ahead with the project, I support you. I know you can do it.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - MFSuper90 - 06-06-2013
I want to see it also!
I think it is a cool idea
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-06-2013
(06-06-2013, 04:26 PM)MFSuper90 I want to see it also!
I think it is a cool idea
(06-06-2013, 05:38 AM)mantahead keep up the good work, nice to see something different and keep us posted.
here is tractor with twin pumps.
thanks!
(06-06-2013, 04:32 PM)offroaddieselhuSimilar but simpler(06-06-2013, 04:26 PM)MFSuper90 I want to see it also!
I think it is a cool idea
(06-06-2013, 05:38 AM)mantahead keep up the good work, nice to see something different and keep us posted.
here is tractor with twin pumps.
thanks!
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-07-2013
Hi,
I work with VE pump, insted of lightening the governor weight. With VE pump I can reach in 70-80% my idea, preload caracteristic.
I can contorol to 6000 rpm,
Usually If iI do pelaod up to 7000 rpm than I lose the range of 1000-2000 rpm.
I think the engine therefore more usefull and "easier" to drive. (To this is necessary to cooperate the turbo and engine)
Offroaddieselhu
(06-06-2013, 07:42 AM)dieselmekenRE: OM 606 with twin VE pump(06-03-2013, 12:55 PM)dieselmeken Why do you prefer 6000rpm as a limit (end) of pump?6000 rpm is the limit I have set, just because when I lightening the governor weight, this is how light I can do it without hunting on low idle.
And why just 220cc?
Offroaddieselhu
I did a 6500-7000rpm to Mantaheads OM605, but that engine would not idle good, hard to drive etc.
Therefore I have set 6000 rpm full load as max.
Also one other issue is that the valvesprings in OM60X engines need to bee replaced for higher rpm.
Max power/tourqe is at 4500-5000 rpm, so actually high rews is nothing to go for in a stock car, but for race / drifting etc they need these rpm I think, If customers want it,I do it.
220-230cc is for the moment the maximum fuel output I get from the 8 mm serie 3 elements, no need to put the adjuster in the bottom,not many engines can take this fuel with good result, 180cc @7,5mm is good for nearley 100hp / cyl 3,2bar boost pressure.
Go ahead with the project, I support you. I know you can do it.
Hi,
I work with VE pump, insted of lightening the governor weight. With VE pump I can reach in 70-80% my idea, preload caracteristic.
I can contorol to 6000 rpm,
Usually If iI do pelaod up to 7000 rpm than I lose the range of 1000-2000 rpm.
I think the engine therefore more usefull and "easier" to drive. (To this is necessary to cooperate the turbo and engine)
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-08-2013
hi Offroaddieselhu,
are you going to run them off a belt side by side?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 03:46 PM)mantahead hi Offroaddieselhu,
are you going to run them off a belt side by side?
OM602 (sprinter) output with belt in my future plan. (net to or above or under).
Please writte me what was your driving difficalties with OM605 on hight rpm?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 03:54 PM)offroaddieselhuit didn't idle so well but i could drive it no problem, just controlled idle with throttle pedal(06-08-2013, 03:46 PM)mantahead hi Offroaddieselhu,
are you going to run them off a belt side by side?
OM602 (sprinter) output with belt in my future plan. (net to or above or under).
Please writte me what was your driving difficalties with OM605 on hight rpm?
it made some difference to my power band with the high rpm.
here is video drag racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vWbiwJ_LOT4
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 04:17 PM)mantahead(06-08-2013, 03:54 PM)offroaddieselhuit didn't idle so well but i could drive it no problem, just controlled idle with throttle pedal(06-08-2013, 03:46 PM)mantahead hi Offroaddieselhu,
are you going to run them off a belt side by side?
OM602 (sprinter) output with belt in my future plan. (net to or above or under).
Please writte me what was your driving difficalties with OM605 on hight rpm?
it made some difference to my power band with the high rpm.
here is video drag racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vWbiwJ_LOT4
time ?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-08-2013
time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 04:41 PM)mantahead time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(06-08-2013, 04:41 PM)mantahead time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
250 HP ?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(06-08-2013, 04:41 PM)mantahead time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(06-08-2013, 04:41 PM)mantahead time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
250 HP ?
385bhp, wasn't getting off the line too well, was bogging down and more revs give me wheelspin and those gearboxes don't like a fast change.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 05:11 PM)mantahead(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(06-08-2013, 04:41 PM)mantahead time wasn't great, 13.7
was laggy with that 18.5cm housing
(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu
250 HP ?
385bhp, wasn't getting off the line too well, was bogging down and more revs give me wheelspin and those gearboxes don't like a fast change.
That time tosen't speek about that power. (we don't want to hurt you)
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - dieselmeken - 06-09-2013
(06-08-2013, 05:15 PM)offroaddieselhuDynoresult did.(06-08-2013, 05:11 PM)mantahead(06-08-2013, 04:46 PM)offroaddieselhu
250 HP ?
385bhp, wasn't getting off the line too well, was bogging down and more revs give me wheelspin and those gearboxes don't like a fast change.
That time tosen't speek about that power. (we don't want to hurt you)
Pump was 7,5mm 140-150cc of fuel
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - mantahead - 06-09-2013
car had drift suspension, too hard for off line traction, i have a 300bhp opel manta that will do 13.1.
all to do with 60 ft times.
by the way, what times are you doing??
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-10-2013
Dynoresult did.
Pump was 7,5mm 140-150cc of fuel
[/quote]
I think counting from the injection quantity is valid when everithing is very idealistic. When the turbo size is the most idealistic.
In my everiting work in most case I build VGT turbo and I experience that the pressure ball setting, and it's working carakteristic, insize size of turbo, trims of belds are influence the power of engine.
Back to the pump, in the case of the most idealistik injection time.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-11-2013
(06-09-2013, 12:47 PM)mantahead car had drift suspension, too hard for off line traction, i have a 300bhp opel manta that will do 13.1.
all to do with 60 ft times.
by the way, what times are you doing??
I build offroad cars, but I have a Mercedes 124 with OM602, that I will messure for you in the future.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-17-2013
I wonder at the motor for maximum speed? I wonder what the turbodieselnek as the operating mode at maximum speed?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - erling66 - 06-17-2013
When are you going to build the engine? Are you going to use that NA 606?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-17-2013
(06-17-2013, 03:41 PM)erling66 When are you going to build the engine? Are you going to use that NA 606?
I want to build only double VE pumps injection system. I want to try it on a well working engine. And later on a car.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-21-2013
I think to reach the higher rpm is a god motivation to buiild the engine.
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-28-2013
VGT turbo OM606......
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - Simpler=Better - 06-28-2013
(06-28-2013, 05:09 AM)offroaddieselhu VGT turbo OM606......
the only way to do it right in my opinion
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - erling66 - 06-29-2013
(06-28-2013, 10:34 AM)Simpler=Better(06-28-2013, 05:09 AM)offroaddieselhu VGT turbo OM606......
the only way to do it right in my opinion
VGT are for people who don't know how to tune an engine, like mc'donalds are for people who don't know how to cook
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 06-29-2013
(06-29-2013, 01:48 AM)erling66(06-28-2013, 10:34 AM)Simpler=Better(06-28-2013, 05:09 AM)offroaddieselhu VGT turbo OM606......
the only way to do it right in my opinion
VGT are for people who don't know how to tune an engine, like mc'donalds are for people who don't know how to cook
we love this Mc Donald's in mechanic too
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 07-08-2013
It have to be decided that it will be maximum power or usable to street. And in street version it must be declarate the quantity of smoke, it can be different in dipendent of country. You can watch some video with hight power diesel, but I think you can not go 100 miles without of to meet police.
If you considerate these argumets, I would be curious what kind of size you would propose for turbo.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 07-11-2013
What sould I change, that my engine would bear 7000-8000rpm? What parts?
Where can I buy these parts?
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - erling66 - 07-12-2013
(07-11-2013, 06:17 AM)offroaddieselhu What sould I change, that my engine would bear 7000-8000rpm? What parts?
Where can I buy these parts?
Offroaddieselhu
Do you know how an IDI diesel engine work? maybe you should read some more about that before you talk about 7000-8000 rpm?
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - DiseaselWeasel - 07-12-2013
OM602 DE29LA
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 07-12-2013
Hi,
I'm not interesting in the workin of an engine, I think I know.
I'd like to know where can I buy valve spring, cam shaft, connecting rod...
Offroaddieselhu
(07-12-2013, 01:56 AM)erling66(07-11-2013, 06:17 AM)offroaddieselhu What sould I change, that my engine would bear 7000-8000rpm? What parts?
Where can I buy these parts?
Offroaddieselhu
Do you know how an IDI diesel engine work? maybe you should read some more about that before you talk about 7000-8000 rpm?
Hi,
I'm not interesting in the workin of an engine, I think I know.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=550...=2&theater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoiCIz1HyBM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLXsVHV97MaIs
I'd like to know where can I buy valve spring, cam shaft, connecting rod...
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM 606 with twin VE pump - offroaddieselhu - 08-01-2013
it is work on it too
offroaddieselhu