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+--- Thread: Manual Transmission information (/showthread.php?tid=421)
RE: Manual Transmission information - Druk - 10-23-2011
(10-23-2011, 01:43 PM)Kozuka it will take about 400tq's give or take before it explodes, could be modified with transmission fluid sprayers & a syncromesh fluid to take a bit more.
Thanks. The 606 gives about 180BHP what is the max torque and at what revs? Also, what is 'syncromesh fluid' please?
RE: Manual Transmission information - Kozuka - 10-24-2011
Well into the 250tqs I would expect. A syncromesh fluid is used in later manual transmissions from other manufacturers like GM & Honda come to mind. It was designed for manual transmissions that used syncro gears to replace atf that was currently being used. AMS oil makes a nice syncromesh fluid. But it your going with a stock setup I wouldn't worry about it.
RE: Manual Transmission information - Druk - 10-24-2011
(10-24-2011, 12:47 AM)Kozuka Well into the 250tqs I would expect.
Thanks. I don't recognise 'tqs' as a unit but the Merc published figure is 330Nm which equates to 243ft lbs. Can I assume that a tqs is the same as a ft/lb?
RE: Manual Transmission information - Kozuka - 10-24-2011
Yeah I ment ft/lbs
RE: Manual Transmission information - W126Lover - 02-17-2012
I got a 5 speed manual transmission today from a 190e 2.6 and i need to know how much power can this 5 spd take? im putting it on my om603 that has 200+ hp and as soon as i get my pump with 7.5 elements im hoping to have near 400hp. how long will it last stock? plus what kind of clutch would be best for that power?
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 02-18-2012
The dude who's taken the 5 speeds to the limit has around 430hp. They break if you're rough with them. He's trying a six speed now.
You will have to fab a custom clutch/pp/flywheel. Well maybe not flywheel, depending on what sort of clutch material you go with. Try these guys: www.clutchnet.com
RE: Manual Transmission information - peter - 05-27-2012
does anybody know if a gearbox from a E270CDI Bj99 fit to an OM606?
I read that the automatic trans from the om606 does fit to the E270CDI.
If not what´s the reason?
The gearbox is a 716 641
Does it hold more torque than the 6 speed from the E220cdi
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 05-27-2012
It'll fit. I don't know their torque ratings.
RE: Manual Transmission information - edge - 07-03-2012
Hi tranny guys, new to this board. Will a MB 4-speed manual transmission from a 1973 220 fit into an 85 300CD?? What mods and jury rigging has to be done? Is it a bolt in? Thanks, my 85 300CD auto tranny is slipping.
RE: Manual Transmission information - Druk - 07-03-2012
(07-03-2012, 09:08 AM)edge Hi tranny guys, new to this board. Will a MB 4-speed manual transmission from a 1973 220 fit into an 85 300CD?? What mods and jury rigging has to be done? Is it a bolt in? Thanks, my 85 300CD auto tranny is slipping.
I think starter may be on wrong side. But please check.
RE: Manual Transmission information - Turbo - 07-03-2012
Manual 6 speed from E270 cdi as far as I know was limited to 370Nm, automatic take 400NM original
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 09-26-2012
Good info from 190rev:
http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41816
RE: Manual Transmission information - raysorenson - 09-27-2012
(09-26-2012, 07:48 AM)winmutt Good info from 190rev:
http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41816
Good info. My 2.3 16v single mass does not have room for a 9.5 clutch
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 09-27-2012
Same boat. I wonder if it can be machined for it. The 16v is also pretty light @ 20lb.
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 09-27-2012
It is awfully close to fitting, shave off a few mm and it'll go in. I wonder how different the pressure plate is.
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 09-27-2012
When I got mine i got a 9" clutch not thinking it needed a gap. So I got a chance to see.the 8.5 to 9. It could be machined. 9 to 9.5 might be to light.
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 10-11-2012
According to this the 68/20-5 is only rated for 205NM
RE: Manual Transmission information - stig - 11-23-2012
Does anybody know who actually makes the Benz 6 speed 'boxes? Is it Benz themselves or Getrag or maybe ZF? Thanks.
RE: Manual Transmission information - hansebanger77 - 11-25-2012
(02-18-2012, 06:34 AM)aaa The dude who's taken the 5 speeds to the limit has around 430hp. They break if you're rough with them. He's trying a six speed now.The dude (Thats me) has no problems with 750nm and 6speed. Work really nice.
You will have to fab a custom clutch/pp/flywheel. Well maybe not flywheel, depending on what sort of clutch material you go with. Try these guys: www.clutchnet.com
RE: Manual Transmission information - jellydonut - 12-12-2012
Does anyone have approximate weights for these boxes? (or even better, specification weights)
RE: Manual Transmission information - raysorenson - 12-12-2012
Guestimate for Getrag 265 dry, without slave cylinder: 35kg.
RE: Manual Transmission information - lgreeley83 - 12-29-2012
I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 12-30-2012
(12-29-2012, 04:56 AM)lgreeley83 I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
Many 5 spd parts are NLA. It'd probably be cheaper to stick a 602 in there than a proper rebuild. Why not jut go with a 2.88 gearing or better?
RE: Manual Transmission information - Alastair E - 12-30-2012
As an alternative to tracing down a good dual-mass flywheel for that short-shaft 6 speed or 5 speed trans you have, you can always buy a kit that uses a solid replacement for the dual-mass type like advertised here--
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181034859977&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
RE: Manual Transmission information - lgreeley83 - 12-31-2012
(12-30-2012, 03:52 PM)winmutt(12-29-2012, 04:56 AM)lgreeley83 I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
Many 5 spd parts are NLA. It'd probably be cheaper to stick a 602 in there than a proper rebuild. Why not jut go with a 2.88 gearing or better?
:-(...... l just like the feeling of a 5. My 4 speed, I always feel like I should be shifting one more time. I think I have 3.07 or 3.08 in the rear but I forget and am not looking at it.
(12-30-2012, 03:52 PM)winmutt(12-29-2012, 04:56 AM)lgreeley83 I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
Many 5 spd parts are NLA. It'd probably be cheaper to stick a 602 in there than a proper rebuild. Why not jut go with a 2.88 gearing or better?
:-(...... l just like the feeling of a 5. My 4 speed, I always feel like I should be shifting one more time. I think I have 3.07 or 3.08 in the rear but I forget and am not looking at it.
(12-30-2012, 03:52 PM)winmutt(12-29-2012, 04:56 AM)lgreeley83 I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
Many 5 spd parts are NLA. It'd probably be cheaper to stick a 602 in there than a proper rebuild. Why not jut go with a 2.88 gearing or better?
:-(...... l just like the feeling of a 5. My 4 speed, I always feel like I should be shifting one more time. I think I have 3.07 or 3.08 in the rear but I forget and am not looking at it.
(12-30-2012, 03:52 PM)winmutt(12-29-2012, 04:56 AM)lgreeley83 I went through all 12 pages or whatever looking for rebuild tips or parts or whatever.
My curiosity is.... if I have a destroyed 717.400 (5 speed for 61x and a petrol or two) is it salvageable? Let's say hypotheticaly I were to ship one from some crazy place like Egypt sight unseen should a transmission guy be able to fix it up to its former glory?
Are the parts readily available? Does the skill set to rebuild such an old trans still exist?
I read an old post from FI saying he was quoted 2k. I wouldn't want to end up in that boat.
Many 5 spd parts are NLA. It'd probably be cheaper to stick a 602 in there than a proper rebuild. Why not jut go with a 2.88 gearing or better?
:-(...... l just like the feeling of a 5. My 4 speed, I always feel like I should be shifting one more time. I think I have 3.07 or 3.08 in the rear but I forget and am not looking at it.
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 12-31-2012
(12-30-2012, 04:58 PM)Alastair E As an alternative to tracing down a good dual-mass flywheel for that short-shaft 6 speed or 5 speed trans you have, you can always buy a kit that uses a solid replacement for the dual-mass type like advertised here--
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181034859977&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Even with shipping to the US that is a good deal. What size is the friction disk?
RE: Manual Transmission information - Alastair E - 12-31-2012
(12-31-2012, 03:50 AM)winmutt(12-30-2012, 04:58 PM)Alastair E As an alternative to tracing down a good dual-mass flywheel for that short-shaft 6 speed or 5 speed trans you have, you can always buy a kit that uses a solid replacement for the dual-mass type like advertised here--
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181034859977&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Even with shipping to the US that is a good deal. What size is the friction disk?
Hi Winmutt How you doing?, --Not sure, Ive just sent 'em a message, we see what they say.
Should imagine--being a commercial-- its one of the larger ones but don't really know--We see his reply....
RE: Manual Transmission information - lpumb3 - 01-18-2013
hi there , to all the ranny guys , i just pulled the tranny off of a donor 617, its a 4 speed . im wondering with what number do i start looking for parts , and can anyone recomend a good trans parts supplier for the benzs. its aluminum bell , iron slope back .
grey with red on the top .
bell#R115 251 25 01
case # 115 261 25 01
28e-9
bubble (gear selector?) plate#115 261 16 19
input shaft bearing plate #r115 261 16 18
any help is greatly app thjanks all
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 01-18-2013
It should have a 717.something number on the passenger side somewhere.
RE: Manual Transmission information - lpumb3 - 01-19-2013
thanks aaa , ill look further as i clean more , i have to stop taking it apart before i find a source for parts .
i will say it looks identical to the second picture on the first post of this thread " slope back iron body" . i can tell it was painted grey"the gear box" and the little bump has red paint ?
i searched against the part number from the case , and it seems to be from a 115 body ? or a 300g . although the info seems that the second set of number under the (115-261-27-01) 28E-9 , is different on trannys in the G.? all second hand info .
also i have i a little bit of vertical play on the input and output shaft , les when any gears are engaged . what is acceptable play ?
RE: Manual Transmission information - lpumb3 - 01-25-2013
(01-18-2013, 09:09 PM)aaa It should have a 717.something number on the passenger side somewhere.
627-747 is the number on the bottom , it looks etched not cast like the other numbers
RE: Manual Transmission information - HaavardPYA - 04-21-2013
Hansebanger: Are you running 6speed now? What flywheel and clutch are you using?
RE: Manual Transmission information - tjts1 - 04-25-2013
Can anybody ID this transmission?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Getriebe-SsangYong-Rexton-2-9-TD-OM662-2005-3102008202-/200753231892?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item2ebdd33814
It bolts up to an OM662. Is it a mercedes gearbox or something else?
RE: Manual Transmission information - HaavardPYA - 04-27-2013
Bolt pattern looks good to 606.
RE: Manual Transmission information - tjts1 - 04-27-2013
(04-27-2013, 01:19 AM)HaavardPYA Bolt pattern looks good to 606.Yeah the engine is the Korean made version of the OM602 so it shares the bolt pattern with all the MB inline engines. I'm just curious what gearbox they used. It looks like a Getrag to me.
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 04-28-2013
It looks like it has the newer style shift linkage from the six speed, but the body is ribbed for some reason.
RE: Manual Transmission information - HaavardPYA - 04-29-2013
It is some sort of Tremec
RE: Manual Transmission information - tjts1 - 04-29-2013
Looks like 91-00 Musso 2.9 diesel used a T5WC.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/96-Ssangyong-Musso-2-9-GEARBOX-diesel-/320740627813
Thats a handy bellhousing to have.
RE: Manual Transmission information - swampmonkey - 06-01-2013
(05-16-2010, 03:11 AM)Kozuka Rumor has it that the 717.430 (190E 2.6/300E 3.0) can sustain around 600tq's and seeing how Stylte Racing (M103 and M104 turbo) abuses this shit out of there's I tend to believe it.
any more confirmations on that? got a 717.430 paired with a om602 that i would like to get some figures out of...
RE: Manual Transmission information - lgreeley83 - 06-30-2013
(06-27-2009, 06:29 AM)ForcedInduction These are all the versions of the OM61x and M110 compatible (right hand wart) manual transmissions.
4-speed, aluminum bell, iron body, "Flat Back". W115 and early W123 models
4-speed, aluminum bell, iron body, "Slope Back". Early-mid W123 models.
4-speed, all aluminum body, made by Getrag. Late (82+) W123 models.
5-speed, aluminum bell, iron body. W115, early W123 models.
5-speed, all aluminum body, made by Getrag. 1980+ W123 models.
Anybody know the interchangeability of the 4 speeds? I have one in my 300d w123 now (a getrag), could I put the "flat back" in with no modifications? Any more comments to the strength of that flat 4 speed?
That copy was from post 4 pics didn't load.
RE: Manual Transmission information - aaa - 06-30-2013
The shift linkages are different.
RE: Manual Transmission information - lgreeley83 - 06-30-2013
(06-30-2013, 10:33 AM)aaa The shift linkages are different.
I figured...the arms look different. thanks.
RE: Manual Transmission information - winmutt - 06-30-2013
You can reposition the arms. I have done this in the past.
RE: Manual Transmission information - Stamsaas - 07-11-2013
(06-01-2013, 05:25 PM)swampmonkey(05-16-2010, 03:11 AM)Kozuka Rumor has it that the 717.430 (190E 2.6/300E 3.0) can sustain around 600tq's and seeing how Stylte Racing (M103 and M104 turbo) abuses this shit out of there's I tend to believe it.
any more confirmations on that? got a 717.430 paired with a om602 that i would like to get some figures out of...
I am now on om605.960 with dieselmeken 180cc pump and hy35w turbo and 717.435 gearbox. Only driven one hour yet, but I can report back more when it have been abused more
(have a 717.411 for backup, but have read that the 435 should take more torque)
RE: Manual Transmission information - Stamsaas - 10-21-2013
Drive the 717.435 gearbox some laps on track and no problems holding up. But a burnout fu**ed it up and 3.gear was gone. This with litle over 2,5bar of boost.
RE: Manual Transmission information - swampmonkey - 10-21-2013
(10-23-2011, 01:43 PM)Kozuka it will take about 400tq's give or take before it explodes, could be modified with transmission fluid sprayers & a syncromesh fluid to take a bit more.
400footpound or nm?
(10-21-2013, 04:14 AM)Stamsaas Drive the 717.435 gearbox some laps on track and no problems holding up. But a burnout fu**ed it up and 3.gear was gone. This with litle over 2,5bar of boost.
aah, to bad, the 717.435 is a single massflywheel gearbox? right?
what car did you get it from?
my 717.430 still holds up with the om602 7.5mm stock turbo, no burnouts, stock clutch.
might have like 220whp something, quicker than a 300CE 12valve and a 2.3 16 at least
RE: Manual Transmission information - Stamsaas - 10-22-2013
The 717.435 is from a 190 2.6 as far as I know. Yes singlemass, and I am driving with lightweight machined FW and 3plated tilton clutch, and that might have been one reason that the gear snapped. I am driving 7,5mm 180cc dieselmeken pump and HY35w on 2.5-2.6bar, dont know the power, but 300hp??
RE: Manual Transmission information - Jooseppi Luna - 11-01-2013
The various W201 Manual Transmission ratios. Copied from a post by cornblatt on PeachParts who says he copied them from a now-defunct Polish website.
190D-2.2 5-speed: 4.23, 2.36, 1.49, 1.00, 0.84 Diff: 3.42
190E-2.3 5-speed (up to August of 1989): 3.91, 2.17, 1.37, 1.00, 0.78 Diff: 3.27
190E-2.3 5-speed (from September of 1989): 3.91, 2.17, 1.37, 1.00, 0.81 Diff: 3.42
190D-2.5 NA 5-speed: 3.91, 2.17, 1.37, 1.00, 0.78, Diff: 3.64
190D-2.5 Turbo 5-speed: (Euro): 3.86, 2.18, 1.38, 1.00, 0.75, Diff:3.46
RE: Manual Transmission information - barrote - 09-05-2014
hy there, may u experts inlight me on the diference between this two gear boxes:
124.260.17.01 717.413 0 640 00 16 , asembled in a W124 126, diff ratio is 1/3.64
124.260..97.01 717.413 0 687 61 94 , esembled in a W124 026, diff ratio is 1/3.64.
need to buy a new gear box , what do u think is the best, for a diff ratio of 1/2.87
Thanks in advance.
RE: Manual Transmission information - swampmonkey - 09-06-2014
(09-05-2014, 03:06 PM)barrote hy there, may u experts inlight me on the diference between this two gear boxes:
124.260.17.01 717.413 0 640 00 16 , asembled in a W124 126, diff ratio is 1/3.64
124.260..97.01 717.413 0 687 61 94 , esembled in a W124 026, diff ratio is 1/3.64.
need to buy a new gear box , what do u think is the best, for a diff ratio of 1/2.87
Thanks in advance.
both are 717.413, and thus "the same" i havent heard that there would be any difference, the diff ratio doesnt matter that mutch either, its more what power you are getting out of the engine.
(althou a super high gearratio isnt to kind on the gearbox if you have heaploads of torque from the engine)