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+--- Thread: Propane (/showthread.php?tid=392)
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Propane - Lincolnlock - 10-14-2008
Well... I've put a few tanks of fuel through this thing. I like it. Every once in a while the idle is crap but the power is way better. Also, I added propane this last week. Talk about night and day difference!!!
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-15-2008
Lincolnlock Well... I've put a few tanks of fuel through this thing. I like it. Every once in a while the idle is crap but the power is way better. Also, I added propane this last week. Talk about night and day difference!!!You do know there is a distinct chance of the propane igniting in the prechamber right? Thats why its generally not a good idead to do propare on an IDI.
Re: Turning delivery valves - ForcedInduction - 10-16-2008
The idea of propane and a glowing prechamber ball don't mix well to me.
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-16-2008
He can be our guinea pig. Licoln, any idea how much you are fumigating? Pre or post turbo?
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-16-2008
I don't know how much I'm putting in. It's only on above 4 psi of boost. I have it regulated way down. It's preturbo. However we did crank it up a whole bunch just to see what we could get out of it. Talk about night and day difference! It runs way smoother now too. (even with it off) I can get the 275's to light up on dry pavement into second gear with it on. It's hilarious!!!
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-16-2008
ForcedInduction The idea of propane and a glowing prechamber ball don't mix well to me.
I wondered about this also. I wonder how much it will take to damage those. I haven't really done any research except what components are needed to build your own setup. Do tell!
Re: Turning delivery valves - kamel - 10-16-2008
Vid?
Re: Turning delivery valves - GREASY_BEAST - 10-21-2008
I believe the problem is not that the propane will do damage to the prechamber, its more the other way around, that the glowing prechamber ball could cause the propane to ignite before the piston reaches TDC... I don't know whether these fears are founded in any scientifically sound basis, but it makes intuitive sense (a very dangerous thing, lol).
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-22-2008
Ok guys, here is a video of the Merc with the propane on. I need to turn the hobbs switch up a little bit. It turns on above 4psi and doesn't quite shut off fast enough while doing a burn out. I defiantly need to turn up the transmission pressure. It doesn't like the extra power. Or, I just need to swap in a 4-speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyOgcRoBHGQ
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-23-2008
Lincolnlock Ok guys, here is a video of the Merc with the propane on. I need to turn the hobbs switch up a little bit. It turns on above 4psi and doesn't quite shut off fast enough while doing a burn out. I defiantly need to turn up the transmission pressure. It doesn't like the extra power. Or, I just need to swap in a 4-speed.When did you cut the propane on? There was definetely a not so good sound there when you started accel. What about a real world drive?
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Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-23-2008
The noise? The flexplate is toast. It came that way. I figured I could just blow it up and then replace it. I need to turn the hobbs switch up a bit as well if I want to cram that much propane in it. Maybe I'll set it at 6psi of boost this time. As for real world driving? With the propane turned down only slightly, it works almost seamlessly on the highway. Around town is no sweat also. But with it turned up a bunch it's a little crazy. The 275's tires in the rear will spin pretty easy. I am going to put on the stock wheels and tires and see if I can't get some good drifts out of the car.
Re: Turning delivery valves - kamel - 10-23-2008
Awesomesauce! It roasts them real good. You'd be suprised how stable the 123's are in a slide. :lol:
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-26-2008
I removed the rack limiter and went out for a "test" drive and broke the differential really bad. Two of the spider gears exploded. So I lincolnlocked the differential. It is now a really good drift car. Good times!!!
Re: Turning delivery valves - kamel - 10-27-2008
This thing just keeps getting better. Too bad about the diff, but it now you have an excuse to lock it up.
Re: Turning delivery valves - tantank79 - 10-27-2008
Ah, now I see why I have always liked your mentality towards the car, making modifications and pushing the limit. You're a wheeler (assuming that is yours in the background, CJ7 on 39s?). Where is the flipoff smilie?
I'll be very curious to see how the welded rear holds up. I've been considering this for my wagon.
Re: Turning delivery valves - ForcedInduction - 10-27-2008
Lincolnlock Two of the spider gears exploded.
That will happen when you do a one wheel burnout.
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-27-2008
tantank79 Ah, now I see why I have always liked your mentality towards the car, making modifications and pushing the limit. You're a wheeler (assuming that is yours in the background, CJ7 on 39s?). Where is the flipoff smilie?
I'll be very curious to see how the welded rear holds up. I've been considering this for my wagon.
I'll keep you posted on the welded diff. I just drive this thing around town and mess around with it. It's hilarious to have the inside tire chirp around corners. And yes that is a CJ on 1tons and 42's in the background. Now for the turbo, and intercooler!!! :twisted:
Re: Turning delivery valves - GREASY_BEAST - 10-27-2008
THAT. IS. AWESOME! Totally gotta see a vid of sideways wagon!! These things handle nice sideways don't they? If you are in the market for a bolt-on 2.47 rear I have one sitting around I am no longer using... might help to keep your traction under control
Please please please post 0-60 video!BTW- is your propane tank just sort of rolling around in the back? bungie at least? I'm scared of doing this, but I'm really glad you did!
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-27-2008
I have the tank ratchet strapped in. I'll have to take some more video of it after I put in the intercooler and HY-9. I have a feeling it's going to be a little crazy! As for your extra differential, I may be in the market for one. Does it have a traction device in it? It rains here a lot and the car is a little coo coo in the rain. (at least you know it's gonna rip it sideways if you are on the stupid pedal)
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-29-2008
Lincolnlock I have the tank ratchet strapped in. I'll have to take some more video of it after I put in the intercooler and HY-9. I have a feeling it's going to be a little crazy! As for your extra differential, I may be in the market for one. Does it have a traction device in it? It rains here a lot and the car is a little coo coo in the rain. (at least you know it's gonna rip it sideways if you are on the stupid pedal)Be careful, according to DOT regulations that tank needs to be in a vented area. Any state patrol officer will probably give you hell for it.
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-30-2008
[/quote]
Be careful, according to DOT regulations that tank needs to be in a vented area. Any state patrol officer will probably give you hell for it.[/quote]
I'm not really sure where else to put it. I put it in the safest place possible. Thats all I can really do. If you have any ideas where else it would go don't be afraid to say so.
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-30-2008
Be careful, according to DOT regulations that tank needs to be in a vented area. Any state patrol officer will probably give you hell for it.[/quote]
I'm not really sure where else to put it. I put it in the safest place possible. Thats all I can really do. If you have any ideas where else it would go don't be afraid to say so.[/quote]
I don't, I just wanted you to be aware that bad things might happen on the side of the road with blue lights behind you.
Re: Turning delivery valves - GREASY_BEAST - 10-30-2008
It has no traction control clutches in it... IIRC you can get them, and install them, but it would be expensive to say the least. From what I've read on these forums they have to be replaced every 40-50k at great cost... If you want rear traction I'd stay with the locker. However, the 2.47 rear **MIGHT** help keep the traction situation under control due to the longer legs.
Re: Turning delivery valves - winmutt - 10-30-2008
GREASY_BEAST It has no traction control clutches in it... IIRC you can get them, and install them, but it would be expensive to say the least. From what I've read on these forums they have to be replaced every 40-50k at great cost... If you want rear traction I'd stay with the locker. However, the 2.47 rear **MIGHT** help keep the traction situation under control due to the longer legs.The cost on the clutch packs was like $4-600 and from what I read failed more frequently than that.
Re: Turning delivery valves - Lincolnlock - 10-30-2008
Clutch's for any limited slip application are around $450. I wonder if randy's ring and pinion could get something that would work... hmm.... As for taller gears I don't really need them. The tires I have on the car are already pretty big. I really don't have to many traction issues with the lincolnlocker in there now either. I'm a little worried about breaking CV's though. I'll keep you guys up to date.
RE: Propane - winmutt - 06-01-2009
Any update on your propane setup Lincolnlock
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-01-2009
(06-01-2009, 06:30 AM)winmutt Any update on your propane setup Lincolnlock
x2... that is pretty sweet, and definitely made my list of shit to do...
RE: Propane - Lincolnlock - 06-02-2009
(06-01-2009, 05:55 PM)SurfRodder(06-01-2009, 06:30 AM)winmutt Any update on your propane setup Lincolnlock
x2... that is pretty sweet, and definitely made my list of shit to do...
What do you want to know about it? I run it all the time. There is definitely a power increase. I pulled the injectors out yesterday to have the new nozzles honed out. I used a bore scope to check out any damage. So far so good. There is hardly any carbon anywhere in the cylinders. Once I get the injectors in I'll have to figure out just how much more turbo I'll need with the added fuel.
RE: Propane - winmutt - 06-02-2009
Can you summarize the propane setup and provide some diagrams/pics? DIY style. I will edit this thread accordingly.
RE: Propane - Lincolnlock - 06-02-2009
Ok then. I used this pressure switch.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HOBBS-PRESSURE-SWITCH-4-PSI-NORMALLY-OPEN_W0QQitemZ180363942454QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fe875a36&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
It closes at 4 psi which completes the circuit and powers the electric shut off switch. Something like this will do. Just make sure it's for a fuel system like a forklift.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MULTIPURPOSE-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-AFC-MODEL-121-2-2072_W0QQitemZ300314833179QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Books_Manuals?hash=item45ec28b11b&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
You will also need a fitting for the tank. This will depend on what you use for a tank. If you are going to use a BBQ grill tank, just use a setup like this. Just make sure you get enough hose.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/36-LP-Hoses-with-POL-pigtails-Propane-Tank-Gas-2-pk_W0QQitemZ270390125595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef481e41b&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116
Otherwise a forklift junkyard/ service center will be your best bet for hose, tank mount, and fittings. They'll have the shut off switch as well.
There is one more thing you'll need. A regulator. I am using a 1/4" pipe fitting in the plastic hose on the inlet. So, very little pressure at all is needed to make it work. Just be sure the spring range of the regulator you use will go low enough to control pressure properly. Maybe something like this.
http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com/mueller-industries-112-551-hi-pres-lpg-regulator.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=CPC&zmam=8568711&zmas=4&zmac=87&zmap=614415
Here is a video we made the first time we tried out the setup. You can hear the engine pinging as I let off. I turned the propane way down after that with no pinging, and the same (seat of the pants dyno) power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyOgcRoBHGQ&feature=channel_page
I'll work on a wiring diagram but it's pretty self explanatory. Power from a fuse, to the dash mounted switch, to the pressure switch (hobbs), to the shutoff valve, to ground. This isn't fancy, or by any means totally awesome. However, it does work. And it's cheap. If you need help with a regulator, I have a few laying around. You pay to ship it and it's yours.
Ok then... something like this.
RE: Propane - ForcedInduction - 06-03-2009
Remember, don't run the fuel lines through the cabin.
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-03-2009
so how long does it take to burn through that tank? If I were to use a small tank (like for a camping lantern/stove) how often would it need to be changed out, assuming constant (every takeoff) use? I'd like to keep everything under the hood if at all possible... Again, great idea, I was going to put a propane setup on my turbo stealth, but some kid wrecked it before I got around to it.
I cant wait to try this out.
RE: Propane - Lincolnlock - 06-04-2009
(06-03-2009, 06:48 PM)SurfRodder so how long does it take to burn through that tank? If I were to use a small tank (like for a camping lantern/stove) how often would it need to be changed out, assuming constant (every takeoff) use? I'd like to keep everything under the hood if at all possible... Again, great idea, I was going to put a propane setup on my turbo stealth, but some kid wrecked it before I got around to it.
I cant wait to try this out.
I haven't yet gone through a whole tank. So... a small camping stove bottle would last a little while. Is your car a turbo? I tried this setup on a naturally aspirated car with very little change in performance.
RE: Propane - winmutt - 06-04-2009
(06-04-2009, 11:19 AM)Lincolnlock I haven't yet gone through a whole tank. So... a small camping stove bottle would last a little while. Is your car a turbo? I tried this setup on a naturally aspirated car with very little change in performance.
NA was like 10% and turboed was like 60% improvement.
If I have 60% improvement over what I have now, I will need a W126 2nd gen drivetrain.
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-04-2009
(06-04-2009, 11:19 AM)Lincolnlock I haven't yet gone through a whole tank. So... a small camping stove bottle would last a little while. Is your car a turbo? I tried this setup on a naturally aspirated car with very little change in performance.
yeah, its a turbo... so basically what I'd need is the above mentioned valves & switch and perhaps a blowtorch adapter to hook it up to a small tank... I think im going to look into that this weekend if I have some spare time...
do you run yours relatively continuously?
(06-04-2009, 04:09 PM)winmutt If I have 60% improvement over what I have now, I will need a W126 2nd gen drivetrain.
That would make the car MUCH more fun to drive... what bits of late 126 would you install?
RE: Propane - Lincolnlock - 06-05-2009
60%?.... more like 15%- 20%. either way... it definitely wakes the car up.
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-08-2009
I just picked up 2 of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45989
One to hook up the small bottle to the rest of the system and one to refill the small bottle from a larger tank...saving me $$... all in all a fairly key pickup.
lincoln, what do you think about adding one of those propane carbs, like these: http://www.propanecarbs.com/examples.html
set it low for the stock turbo, but then crank it up for upgraded turbo...
RE: Propane - Lincolnlock - 06-09-2009
(06-08-2009, 07:23 PM)SurfRodder I just picked up 2 of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45989
One to hook up the small bottle to the rest of the system and one to refill the small bottle from a larger tank...saving me $$... all in all a fairly key pickup.
lincoln, what do you think about adding one of those propane carbs, like these: http://www.propanecarbs.com/examples.html
set it low for the stock turbo, but then crank it up for upgraded turbo...
I don't know how well that would work? Those carbs put in quite a bit of fuel.
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-09-2009
a few I have been looking at are adjustable from 1 to 75 HP range... Im thinking start out with a small 10HP-ish and then crank it up a bit when a larger turbo is installed...
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-18-2009
So I orderd a 'kit' from fleabay that has a carb similar to what I asked about, plus all the relays and valves above.... the dude posted his phone number on the ad and seems to be fairly knowledgeable... He says I can expect about 30HP gain from this setup, plus better combustion. I think this may be the way to go, as I can always crank up the fuel when I get around to installing a larger turbo...
this might even be a good option to the Myna pump...and far cheaper as well... this kit cost me ~$310 shipped and I have the capability of adding enough propane for 100HP boost and I get tech support as well... Ill keep you guys posted when I get it setup.
I am even considering hitting up a dyno to do a before and after setup, or more likely a unit off/unit on run...
RE: Propane - GREASY_BEAST - 06-19-2009
Don't blow anything up!!
RE: Propane - winmutt - 06-19-2009
(06-18-2009, 11:39 AM)SurfRodder So I orderd a 'kit' from fleabay that has a carb similar to what I asked about, plus all the relays and valves above.... the dude posted his phone number on the ad and seems to be fairly knowledgeable... He says I can expect about 30HP gain from this setup, plus better combustion. I think this may be the way to go, as I can always crank up the fuel when I get around to installing a larger turbo...
this might even be a good option to the Myna pump...and far cheaper as well... this kit cost me ~$310 shipped and I have the capability of adding enough propane for 100HP boost and I get tech support as well... Ill keep you guys posted when I get it setup.
I am even considering hitting up a dyno to do a before and after setup, or more likely a unit off/unit on run...
This post is worthless without a URL
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-20-2009
(06-19-2009, 01:08 PM)winmutt This post is worthless without a URL
...hehehe sorry, it was from this dude:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DIESEL-PROPANE-INJECTION-KIT-GAIN-UP-TO-100-HP-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1171Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem29fee5330fQQitemZ180370092815QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
RE: Propane - SurfRodder - 06-25-2009
got my kit in the mail yesterday... wont be able to get to it for at least another weekend, due to skrewl and other nonsense, but hopefully ill get it installed then..
RE: Propane - willbhere4u - 06-26-2009
a good buddy of mine put propane on his Cummins he put a limit switch on his throttle in line with the boost "hobbs" switch so it has to have throttle and 7psi to turn on then when you let off the throttle it turns off immediately and cant run away like in your vid when you let off! The switch is only off when the peddle is completely off worked good
RE: Propane - winmutt - 06-26-2009
Seems to me this would be better used with the kick down switch, that way its only running +7psi with the pedal to the floor.
RE: Propane - willbhere4u - 06-26-2009
He runs propane with the 7psi on the highway for better fuel mileage he can adjust it higher for more power as well!
RE: Propane - Rudolf_Diesel - 09-04-2009
I have decided to play around with propane and see what I can gain or not from the project. It may be a bad thing or it may turn out well, that being said, I just want to see for myself and get hands on experience from the project.
Here are some pics of what I have so far:
Engine before staring project
Starting to drill hole for nozzle
Hole ready to be tapped - 1/8-27 NPT
View of installed nozzle
Another view of installed nozzle
Propane supply for testing
Engine after nozzle installation
Flame test!!!
RE: Propane - ForcedInduction - 09-04-2009
Propane isn't good in a diesel, especially with high compression and indirect injection. The compression pressure alone is enough to ignite (detonate) the propane but you also have the glowing hot ball inside the prechamber.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/video/lpg-idling-diesel
RE: Propane - winmutt - 09-04-2009
Yes but people have done it. There is a risk of precombustion. There is a risk in everything we do here. Didn't you read the disclaimer? heheheh