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+--- Thread: The Phoenix Project (/showthread.php?tid=3164)
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The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 11-30-2011
Here is my replacement car: The Phoenix Project. I am super pleased with everything from where the front door ends to the trunk. The PO spent a bundle on a top notch paint job -- around $3,900. The paint is impeccable, perfect or at least I cannot locate an problems yet. I just hosed it down in the picture. About a years worth of dirt was on it. I need to wash it again, and then some wax. Bad thing, the PO hit a pole. He initally represented the paint job was $5,900 but he was off by $2,000, but it was an honest mistake.
So, this week, it goes on the rack. I got replacement sheet metal for the front. I got a mint blue interior from P-A-P for $80!
Other plus factors: all manual, window regulators, manual climate control, et cet. It was orginally a stick, so that is a plus also. RUST FREE, inside and out.
Once it is straightened out, I will update the thread. Then, once I get my fenders, inner engine bay, and hood soda blasted, it is getting painted, then SUPER detailed.
Then, on to the inside -- total sound deadening and dying the interior for a perfect look. Then, my PERFECT crack free dash from a 300D parts car which is blue is going to be installed. The present dash is cracked like crazy plus it's a 240D dash. The 3-4 things which are "unique" to the 240D in so far as the body and interior is concerned will be gone by Christmas.
Engine is being rebuilt now in my garage. The creme color hood is perfect, just filthy -- It is for sale.
Let me know what you think ... Thanks and greetings from Sunny South Carolina and introducing the Phoenix Project -- the silver blue girl will fly again !
RE: The Phoenix Project - JustPassinThru - 11-30-2011
Wow, sharp!
What are you using for sound deadening?
I'd like to get manual climate controls, too. The automatic controls don't allow me to sustain a maximum hot blast when I'm all wet on a freezing day...
Got covers, for those steel wheels?
RE: The Phoenix Project - garage - 11-30-2011
Gosh i love the way these cars look without bumpers.
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 12-01-2011
Pretty sweeet, way nicer than my 240 which is probably going to end up being the base for a large generator sometime in the near-ish future
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 12-01-2011
Without giving away the upcoming posts, I am trying out "WWW.SoundDeadeningShowdown.Com" for sound damening. Don seems to be one of the best. My goal is to limit the costs to $500.00. The car itself cost $550.00. After a sell a few 240D unique parts, my net cost for the car will be around $375.00. My overall goal is to have the entire "interior" done for no more than $1,000.00. [Sound Dampening will be hopefully no more than $500; Dyeing seats, et cet., and odds and ends regarding the seats / interior about $250.00; and whatever else pops up there is $250.00 budgeted.] That will put my costs under $1,000 for an interior. Exterior or exterior appearances will include mudflaps, 280 Euro Bumpers, tinted windows (HuperOptik), very slightly lowered springs, & 15" tires. I think my total body shop costs will be under $500.00. So that will push my budget to $1,900 at that point. Remainder is mechanical costs. I am hoping that my mechanical efforts will be capped at no more than $4,000.00, and that includes -- HOPEFULLY -- a Dieselmenken Pump! So, when I am done, I will probably have $6,000 invested. But, I think I will be incorporating very many of the modifications / upgrades thanks to this forum and a few other odds and ends from the others. But, the overall goal is a true STD, rust free and super nice appearance that will last another 25 years !!!!
RE: The Phoenix Project - Captain America - 12-01-2011
(11-30-2011, 10:35 PM)garage Gosh i love the way these cars look without bumpers.
Man I agree. Think Im taking mine off!
(12-01-2011, 12:26 AM)sassparilla_kid Pretty sweeet, way nicer than my 240 which is probably going to end up being the base for a large generator sometime in the near-ish future
A rolling generator would be dope!
(12-01-2011, 09:34 AM)Greazzer Without giving away the upcoming posts, I am trying out "WWW.SoundDeadeningShowdown.Com" for sound damening. Don seems to be one of the best. My goal is to limit the costs to $500.00. The car itself cost $550.00. After a sell a few 240D unique parts, my net cost for the car will be around $375.00. My overall goal is to have the entire "interior" done for no more than $1,000.00. [Sound Dampening will be hopefully no more than $500; Dyeing seats, et cet., and odds and ends regarding the seats / interior about $250.00; and whatever else pops up there is $250.00 budgeted.] That will put my costs under $1,000 for an interior. Exterior or exterior appearances will include mudflaps, 280 Euro Bumpers, tinted windows (HuperOptik), very slightly lowered springs, & 15" tires. I think my total body shop costs will be under $500.00. So that will push my budget to $1,900 at that point. Remainder is mechanical costs. I am hoping that my mechanical efforts will be capped at no more than $4,000.00, and that includes -- HOPEFULLY -- a Dieselmenken Pump! So, when I am done, I will probably have $6,000 invested. But, I think I will be incorporating very many of the modifications / upgrades thanks to this forum and a few other odds and ends from the others. But, the overall goal is a true STD, rust free and super nice appearance that will last another 25 years !!!!
Wow, Sounds like its gonna be sweet!
RE: The Phoenix Project - mike-81-240d - 12-02-2011
Yeah that is most def 0930G aka silver blue metallic.
RE: The Phoenix Project - DeliveryValve - 12-05-2011
Great plan in saving that car!
Looking forward to see the results.
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 12-30-2011
Because my frame - front end phase is being delayed for a few weeks or so, I am shifting gears to a CARBON FIBER HOOD. I should say an attempt. Here are some pictures of
1. The hood off one of my parts cars - looks nasty.
2. After sanding -- HUGE mistake! Explained below
3. After $25.00 for chemical stripper and just 3 coats -- Perfect except where I sanded it. You can see where it went thru some sort of protective coating. So, if you're stripping sheet metal parts, I highly recommend chemical stripping. Instead of 2 hours of sanding which got me very little versus less than one hour you can end up with some pretty nice looking metal. Next time -- I am taking this to the do-it-yourself car wash and it looks like 3 medium coats of this stuff and pressure wash in-between. A hood should take less than 1 hour, and costs are around $25.00 (I got about a quart left of this stuff).
This weekend I hope to get the hood set up with flanges and if I can score my tooling gelcoat, PVA, and fiberglass, I am shooting to make the reverse mold. If that works, then I will try the carbon fiber route. Right now, I have spent under $70.00 but the $10 for the sandpaper was a waste. I suspect I will have to hit it with 400 grit and 600 grit and there is one incredibly small ding which you can only see at a particular angle and most times I miss it looking at it. The goal is a PERFECT mold and I understand that I can expect at least 10 hoods from a well made mold. So, as a feeler, ASSUMING this works in that a production - factory like CF hood can be made, are there any folks out there interested in buying one. I can tell you the materials alone will cost about $300-$400. That is for ALL CF, quality CF, seamless construction, and top and bottom pieces if necessary. I am shooting for under $300 to make the mold. So, assuming that occurs, to amortorize the mold costs, there would be $30.00 in addition to materials. I discovered that almost all the $500-$600 CF hoods are not ALL CF, they are not seamless except the very outer layer, and there is about 4 layers max in what is being sold as a quality CF hood. The REAL deals are running at least $1,000.00. By far this will be my most challanging project. On top of the Bling factor, the hood weighs about 48 pounds. The CF hood would weigh about 6 pounds max (CF infusion technique instead of wet laying).
RE: The Phoenix Project - Captain America - 12-31-2011
Sounds like a crazy project but I cant wait to see how it turns out!
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 12-31-2011
Write any problems you have on here, or let me know. I have lots of fiberglass laying experience and know people that do a LOT of carbon work the the marine industry.
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 12-31-2011
Cool. I appreciate it. I think I got a few hours of 400 grit and then 600 grit, then #2 mold release wax buffing like crazy, then 2-3 coats of PVA. If I can do the latter within 4 -5 hours, than I think I will go for doing the mold same day.
I think I can flange it, then clay on the few odd spots in about an hour. And then the moment of truth. I think 6 layers of Fiberglass should be enough for the mold. What do you think ?????????? Do you think 10 layers would be overkill ?? I want a super sturdy mold so that I can make at least 10 hoods.
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 12-31-2011
What kind of weave are you using? How many ounces is it? Those are dependents of how much glass you will need. 6 will be fine if it is a 1 oz cloth. Are you considering a fiber weave with then a mat overlay for strength?
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 12-31-2011
The CF will be 3K, 5.5 oz 2x2 weave, 50" width. No, all CF. I saw folks putting in a kevlar honeycomb or something similar, but from what I gather the real top quality hoods are 6-10 layers of CF, single piece. There will be no fiberglass in the hood.
RE: The Phoenix Project - garage - 12-31-2011
How much do you think you would sell a CF hood for?
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 01-01-2012
haha easy there tiger ^. He is very far away from getting a hood popped out.
Greazzer- I was talking in regard to the mold. The female mold to be exact. (I would assume you are using fiberglass)
The carbon is something I will look into though. I will get you the precise info you need for that.
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 01-01-2012
Oopps, the mold. Sorry about that ... LOL. Fiberglass Chop Strand Mat (CSM) at 1.5 oz. , with epoxy resin. Just FG, and nothing sandwiched in between. The flange area will probably be reinforced with slats of wood, with a bunch of FG and resin as I need to make a box around the mold once I make it. Yes, female mold will be FG. I thought about a CF mold, but the costs would be crazy, but it would last a life time. And, yes, give me until Monday or Tuesday to report the mold making progress. If the mold comes out nice, then I will have to buy all the CF infusion stuff and CF. The materials will be around $300-$400. If I make it this far, then it will take a week or so just to order the CF infusion and CF stuff and get it in. So, yes...it will take a while. The week after I leave town for 2 weeks because of work, so I am looking at the end of January to "Pop" out my first hood. BUT, if I can make it that far, then I could crank out a hood a day. So, the price of the hood would be the costs of materials and what I can boil my time down to make one after the first few which I suspect will be time bandits.
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 01-01-2012
Alright for the mold you will only need one of the CSM layers. The rigidity of the mat is very tough. I think anything over three layers is too much, as you would be soaking up a lot of resin making it very heavy. I would go with a 1 oz. tight weave layer on the face of the mold that will be on the business side. A tighter weave will make your life easier when you are sanding down and making a perfect mold face.
My suggestion is to check out Fiber Lay for info and material. They are one stop shop for many fiberglassers.
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 01-02-2012
What do you mean "when you are sanding down and making a perfect mold face?" I am using 2-3 coats of tooling gelcoat so I should have no sanding / virtually a perfect "face" when I pop the mold off ... Let me know what you're thinking please as I was shooting for today to try this out ... but I don't want to create a huge mess and waste either. Thanks in advance.
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 01-02-2012
When you pop the mold off of the hood, you will hopefully have just minor sanding, but mostly polishing to make the mold face perfect and flawless. Didn’t mean to scare you! It sounds like you have a solid plan. Forge forward!
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 01-05-2012
I was just wondering if you have done any of the sound deadening stuff yet?? I checked out that sounddeadenershowdown.com site and it seemed pretty awesome, now Im looking into doing it to my car. Another project added to the list lol
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 01-05-2012
Yes, Don got back to me and told me how to properly insulate (sound dampen) the car doors. I will try to get some time to get those pictures, diagrams, pictures, et cet. It was not what I thought but the anticipated results "sound" pretty impressive. He really takes a scientific approach to this versus just dumping money and layers of stuff.
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 01-05-2012
Yeah I was thinking about getting some of those CLD tiles and putting them in the doors, trunk lid, and roof, since these seem like the areas that would benefit the most. Im just tired of all the road noise and if this can relatively inexpensively take the edge off then I'll be a happy camper
RE: The Phoenix Project - Captain America - 01-06-2012
Decrease road noise, Increase STD engine noise!
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 01-11-2012
(01-06-2012, 10:28 PM)Captain America Decrease road noise, Increase STD engine noise!
This requires money for new tires, and time/patience/bravery to tune IP!! lol
RE: The Phoenix Project - vstef_is - 01-11-2012
A huge source of road-noise is the rubber seals on all doors, particularly the lower separate ones... sort of...
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 01-12-2012
My door seals are all mostly fine except on the top of the driver's door, and the window seal needs replacing as well but I dont feel like dishing out the money for new ones right now, maybe after I get rich lol
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 01-19-2012
As I wait for what seems like forever to get my front end straightened out, I am doing as much research as possible on AMG and upgrades. It looks like the 4 pot calipers will work BUT I believe you will need to get the brake system off a 560SL. That is, even though the 420, 560, et cet are W126's, the post 1986 560SL was a little bit different. I will post my results shortly. It looks like AMG did the 4 pot conversion at a really hefty price tag. I found a 560 at the junkyard so for under $100 it is worth the gamble to grab the parts. I have attached one of many AMG brochures that I located. Overall, much of the cool upgrades and modifications in the forum were high dollar upgrades offered thru AMG in its day. More to come.
More AMG --
Because of the size, I will have to post items one at a time.
(01-19-2012, 11:10 PM)Greazzer As I wait for what seems like forever to get my front end straightened out, I am doing as much research as possible on AMG and upgrades. It looks like the 4 pot calipers will work BUT I believe you will need to get the brake system off a 560SL. That is, even though the 420, 560, et cet are W126's, the post 1986 560SL was a little bit different. I will post my results shortly. It looks like AMG did the 4 pot conversion at a really hefty price tag. I found a 560 at the junkyard so for under $100 it is worth the gamble to grab the parts. I have attached one of many AMG brochures that I located. Overall, much of the cool upgrades and modifications in the forum were high dollar upgrades offered thru AMG in its day. More to come.
More AMG --
Because of the size, I will have to post items one at a time.
Another attachment
RE: The Phoenix Project - JustPassinThru - 01-22-2012
Wow, what a feast...
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 01-22-2012
If I could only figure out a way to post the huge color brochure I got. Also, I got some stuff on the brakes from AMG. Apparently, the 4 pot W126 brake system "WAS" the AMG upgrade. Any technical help out there ???
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 02-01-2012
I have been really behind on this project and virtually everything else. So, if I missed any emails, or shipped parts late, I am truly sorry. I generally do not conduct myself this way. Losing 2 weeks has been exhausting. But -- Progress.1. The new front end is being welded on this week. I should have some exciting photos really soon.
2. Got a mechancial steering box with tight ratios. Almost the same as power steering, but not quite. BUT -- this makes room for my supercharger.
3. Special thanks to members for my 25mm front sway bar and cool Euro rear headrests and rear springs which are super robust.
4. Got my GETRAG 5 SPEED 717.400. Yes .... and I got all the other stuff needed, e.g., FW, correct crossmember, correct front driveshaft part, shifter, et cet.
5. Carbon Fiber Hood is crawling ahead, but crawling. Taking a professional course in Reno, NV on composites -- there goes my tax return.
6. Odd-ball Euro windshield fluid resevoir which holds a whopping 1.67 gallons. I can now cleverly hide my Methanol-Water Injection system's tank in the same exact spot as the normal resevoir. The 3 gallon tank posted on another thread is most likely going to be a fuel cell for a 2 tank WVO system.
7. Sourced a nice set of Euro W123 280 bumpers from a forum member OR got a nice rear one from another forum.
I hope to get some time in February because I think I got most parts to slap the old girl together and get her on the road by mid March at the lastest.
RE: The Phoenix Project - w123love - 02-01-2012
Yewwww 5 speed awesome!
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 02-02-2012
You lucky duck! I want a 5 speed, lol. I guess I need some moneys first though
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 02-02-2012
If I saved just $1.00 for everyday I looked for the damm transmission, I would have over $1,000 saved by now. I looked over 2 years for a mechanical steering box. I looked for about 6 months for that odd ball washer resevoir. I cannot believe it's all coming together after all this time. Now -- the sucky part ... working 13-14 hour days and no free time to do jack. WTF ...
RE: The Phoenix Project - Simpler=Better - 02-02-2012
Better to have the parts and no time than time and no parts!
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 02-02-2012
Attached is the AMG catelog for the Brake Upgrade, 300mm Rotors and 4 Pot Calipers (from a 560SL). Next junkyard visit.
RE: The Phoenix Project - led-panzer - 02-04-2012
This is going to be one hell of a car! I can't wait to see it all together. That mechanical steering is very interesting.... what's it from?
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 02-04-2012
The MECHANICAL STEERING BOX is from a W123 Euro, it is stamped 79' (I am guessing that represents 1979"). It came from a 240D, model year 1981 I think. It is Mercedes, Part Number 123-461-06-01. I hope to get out of this rut of working too many hours a day to tackle this car project. I am sick and tired of paying for gasoline and I actually miss my W123.
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 02-05-2012
(02-02-2012, 08:40 AM)Simpler=Better Better to have the parts and no time than time and no parts!
I just have to repeat this haha
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 03-17-2012
The front-end is finally back on. Compare the beginning pictures and it looks already 100% better (at least to me). Just got the old girl home today. I am getting the engine bay soda blasted while I am away this week. Once it is soda blasted, the front end will be painted. Once that is done, the car should have an absolutely 100% OEM appearance except the Euro 3 piece bumbers. I am awaiting bumbers from JustPassingthru. That is, the outside is done. I am getting my seats put together in my garage, 20 minutes here and there. Double springs in the front seats and foam instead of horsehair. After that , it is just putting in the front end suspension stuff and drive train and I should be up and burning grease by May if all goes well. I started this project on November 1st and my goal is May 1st (6 months). Right now looking for a turbo. I got one of Goran's 6mm modified pumps, and I am looking for the right turbo ! All contributions are now being solicited. Thanks !
RE: The Phoenix Project - dieselmeken - 03-18-2012
Glad that the pump arriwed, did you like my small surprise?
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 03-18-2012
Hi Goran,
Thank you for the gift ! That was very kind & generous. I got some nice injector bodies stashed away and plan on an install, pop test, and balance this upcoming week. Picked it up late Friday night. I will post some pictures and write up very soon. The oil seeped out everywhere, but I hope everything made it OK. Did you get my core ?
AMG Air Dam (front chin) for he Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 06-20-2012
After a bunch of luck and a lot of looking, I found some real AMG stuff. Here is my front air dam (front chin). I wish I could figure out the damm rear euro bumper deal, however. I just ordered some rear brackets and got some scarey news from a fellow forum member that the rear quarter "brackets" are not the right ones either. So, if the Purplecomputer is out there, please let me know that they work. I am hoping the brackets show up this week or next so that I can finally try the final install of the rear euro bumper. Once that occurs, I can hopefully hyperspace to getting the interior and front end done within a month, but at my pace that sounds unlikely. So, if anyone has any info on the Euro bumpers, please start a post since that is my next brave move into the unknown. I have been stymied for months just on the rear bumper but that is holding up the train. LOL.
RE: The Phoenix Project - winmutt - 06-20-2012
Be prepared to be disappointed about the 4pots... They came on the second gen R107 and share the same setup as the 124. I could be COMPLETELY wrong but I never made the leap because of this. I just double checked and the front end balljoints and other bits have 124 part numbers....
RE: The Phoenix Project - sassparilla_kid - 06-20-2012
(06-20-2012, 10:27 PM)winmutt Be prepared to be disappointed about the 4pots... They came on the second gen R107 and share the same setup as the 124. I could be COMPLETELY wrong but I never made the leap because of this. I just double checked and the front end balljoints and other bits have 124 part numbers....
So what does that mean?
RE: The Phoenix Project - winmutt - 06-20-2012
Wont fit on a w123....
RE: The Phoenix Project - Simpler=Better - 06-21-2012
You can always make an offset plate...
RE: The Phoenix Project - Greazzer - 06-21-2012
I will post my results ... promises promises ... LOL.
Not sure at this point. I need to get the proof in the puddng by trying to install at some point. I could not locate anything which indicates there was some sort of special part out there to make them fit. This was an AMG upgrade to the tune of over $3,000 in early 1980 dollars, so maybe there is something more to it than a simple swap. In the AMG catelog, it has a purchase code #, et cet. Just looking at it, it sure looks close and comparing the W124 vs. the W126, it looked like the W126, but maybe I will be posting these on the forum for sale. LOL.
HOWEVER, I got my AMG front chin !
RE: AMG Air Dam (front chin) for he Phoenix Project - Purplecomputer - 06-21-2012
(06-20-2012, 07:18 PM)Greazzer After a bunch of luck and a lot of looking, I found some real AMG stuff. Here is my front air dam (front chin). I wish I could figure out the damm rear euro bumper deal, however. I just ordered some rear brackets and got some scarey news from a fellow forum member that the rear quarter "brackets" are not the right ones either. So, if the Purplecomputer is out there, please let me know that they work. I am hoping the brackets show up this week or next so that I can finally try the final install of the rear euro bumper. Once that occurs, I can hopefully hyperspace to getting the interior and front end done within a month, but at my pace that sounds unlikely. So, if anyone has any info on the Euro bumpers, please start a post since that is my next brave move into the unknown. I have been stymied for months just on the rear bumper but that is holding up the train. LOL.
I still have to weld the inner bracket found onto the bumper back on because it broke off while I was trying to install the bumper but while doin so, it didnt seem to fit right, Ill keep ya posted
EDIT: I found this diagram for all rear euro bumpers
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Chassis/88-220.pdf
RE: The Phoenix Project - REAR Euro Bumper - Greazzer - 07-08-2012
Attached are some pictures. I am going to re-do this post because I want to identify all parts and lay them out just in case anyone can learn from my trials and tribulations. It is already 90+F at 10 AM so I have to quit. Plus, I need to pick up stainless steel fastners, washers, and a few rubber grommets, plus some POR-15 to make this a job well done. The REAR Euro Bumper is compliments of "Just Passing Thru", the main bumper brackets at the rear of the car are EBAY and the side quarterpanel brackets that go onto the end piece "arms" are PP (dealer). The pads appear to be crucial, so that is definitely a suggested always new item. As you can tell by the last 2 pictures, I have some fine tuning plus I need to figure out how to attach the rubber bumper strip. Does one just try to slide that rubber piece on ???
NEED OPINIONS ABOUT QUOTE:
Got a rough quote (Which I think is high) of $450.00 to paint 2 fenders and hood. They are stripped down (chemically) to the metal coating (some sort of electro applied coating from the factory). There is NO body work needed and no rust. Just need them prep'd, primered, and painted to match the car and assuming to be re-bolted on. All fastners are sorted, layed out, and ready to go. I still did not get a firm response from the person for the engine bay and AMG air dam. I think I will get everything done hopefully in the next few weeks. That way, I can put everything on it that needs to go on the body, and the outside will look completely done. Interior just needs to be re-dyed which is a capable project once the car is out of my garage. If that should happen, I can keep the car outside (in the brutal heat) and put the drivetrain inside the garage. The block now has brand new cylinder sleeves, its honed, and I got a great price on the maching shop to put it all back together.
ANY OPINIONS ON THE PRICING ??? Please.
Thanks,