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+--- Thread: sassparilla_kid's 300D Turbodiesel (/showthread.php?tid=3066)
sassparilla_kid's 300D Turbodiesel - sassparilla_kid - 10-27-2011
Hi, I have an '82 300D Turbo and just had a few intake and exhaust related questions I have been wondering about lately.
First, I would like to remove the stock air cleaner assembly and replace it, probably with one of those large fram filters, and was just wondering if there is anything special I should know when doing this, and along with this what is the best way to deal with the pcv system?
Secondly, I intend to swap some manifolds in off of a '79 that dond have all of that egr crap on there and would like to know if there is going to be anything that will make this more difficult than it needs to be?
And finally, since I just discovered the exhaust down tube is sheared off at the lower end I was thinking about just removing everything after that since it isn't doing anything or possibly straight piping it, but for some reason my dad is trying to convince me that it will negatively affect performance and fuel economy but I dont see how that is possible.
Thanks
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - carlitosgy6 - 10-27-2011
if you put an straight pipe its going to be cheaper on fuel and has more power earlier because the turbo will spool faster,remember,if your alda its maxed,the engine without boost its smoking a lot,just when the turbo kicks in the smoke goes away and the engine produces more power,with the same amount of diesel
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 10-28-2011
PCV, just run a hose down to about 6" off the ground, called a road draft tube. Don't circulate the oil vapor back through the turbo, manifold, engine.... No bueno
The exhaust manifold is cake. If you have the individual runner 115 manifold then you just need to figure out how to attach the boost tube to it.
I am sorry to say but your pops is wrong. If it was a gas engine without turbo, he would be right, but this is different. My downpipe ends where it starts to curve underneath the car.... Shoots at the pavement. I LOVE IT!
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-28-2011
Thanks Captain, I came to same conclusion about the exhaust. With the road draft tube setup how much oil can I expect to lose since it isn't being recirculated back into the engine?
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 10-28-2011
re: oil consumption.
Let us know how you do. I draft my ccv and just keep a gallon of rotella in the trunk to top off. I notice oil consumption is exaggerated when I run long and hot like 80 mph+ road trips. Otherwise it is just a little bit.
Probably like 1/4 quart per week and I drive about 350miles a week.
Those ccv are poison anyway. There are some experts here that will tell you about all the nasties that are in that gas.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 10-28-2011
No Problem.
The oil consumption really depends on how much blow-by there is... When I first bought my SD, it had quite a bit and the oil cap would hop on the valve cover... made me worry. But after driving it the way I drive (somewhat hard) vs. the granny way normal old folk drive these cars, the blow-by almost completely disappeared. I really don't notice any oil consumption, so it just depends
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-28-2011
That is good to know, I guess I'll probably be picking up a fram (8038?) sometime in the next week or so, and some sort of hose to vent the pcv down below the car. I guess a large elbow will also help
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 10-28-2011
Yeah, make sure to save that oem 90 on the valve cover. There is very little clearance there between the hood. The draft tube can be 3/4in heater hose I think.
The fram 8038 is smaller than the 8037, right? I have one of each and the larger of the two is a bit crammed in there for my taste.
Also the steel tube to the ol pan needs to be plugged or dealt with in some way.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-28-2011
I just realized the fram just has a large hole in one end, so Im trying to figure out how to connect it. Should I just use a slightly larger diameter pipe and shove it in there so it has a tight fit?
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 10-28-2011
Yup. mine is an abs elbow fitting into the filter.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-29-2011
I just bought a filter and some hose so now all I guess I need is the elbow and I should be set, so hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to go find one since I have work later
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - MTUPower - 10-29-2011
Venting the oil to the ground is not a super thing to do to the road or the environment. Use a old 240D oil sep unit and then vent to a gatorade bottle filled with fishing line and a large hole on the top of it. The fishing line filled bottle collects the remaining oil vapor. I did this a 20 months ago and have collected about a cup of oil in it. The real question is why you want to change the original air filter set up. It certainly provides great air filtering and is not a drag on the system. Getting a fram filter will not get you any more power with the stock IP unless the IP is highly modified. Removing the rest of the exhaust will get you more power, and sooner in the rpm range. Beware, some think straight pipe is too loud and it drones at some speeds. The non egr exhaust manifold is a better unit and it's swap is straight forward with no tricks.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-30-2011
Awesome, all great to know! Im actually toying with a few oil separator ideas but since Im probably not gonna be putting the new filter setup in for a while I haven't decided yet. The exhaust is definitely gonna go and I hope to see some sort of power increase from that. And for the rest of my to do list, after setting IP timing and the manifold swap, I hope to work on the turbo to get more boost and then the IP modification comes next
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 10-30-2011
1 cup of oil over 20 months is insignificant in my eyes and the stock filter setup is lame.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-30-2011
^^^like, if it wasn't for all of the 180* turns in the filter setup I wouldn't mind as much, and also Im pretty sure the air cleaner bracket is broken because I can shake it. Tomorrow hopefully I'll have enough time to go get an abs elbow and maybe a boost gauge
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 10-31-2011
Yeah that bracket breaks all the time.
Even if it doesn't technically help performance, I love the sound and room acquired with the Fram filter setup
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 10-31-2011
The room is a major plus, the battery is probably gonna be moved to the trunk for more room also, and then I'll have to find something to do with all the extra space
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 11-01-2011
An Air/Water intercooler is perfect!
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-01-2011
^^^ That's exactly what I was thinking!!!! Probably not gonna be able to happen for a while though. The next things on my to do list are to swap the non-egr manifolds on, and replace my now slightly crushed oil pan, which I might try to get to on thursday since its my 1 day off this week
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - dieselboy - 11-01-2011
Road draft tube works just fine on my car.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-01-2011
I guess maybe it would be a good idea to get an EGT gauge for when I swap manifolds, since I know one of the purposes of the egr system is to lower combustion temperatures
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-01-2011
(11-01-2011, 04:45 PM)sassparilla_kid I guess maybe it would be a good idea to get an EGT gauge for when I swap manifolds, since I know one of the purposes of the egr system is to lower combustion temperatures
Is that so? How is hot ass exhaust being recirculated into your motor supposed to control the overall temp?
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - aaa - 11-01-2011
Peak temp (what egr does) does not equal overall temp (what egt measures).
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-01-2011
(11-01-2011, 06:44 PM)larsalan(11-01-2011, 04:45 PM)sassparilla_kid I guess maybe it would be a good idea to get an EGT gauge for when I swap manifolds, since I know one of the purposes of the egr system is to lower combustion temperatures
Is that so? How is hot ass exhaust being recirculated into your motor supposed to control the overall temp?
I found this in the emissions control section of the Haynes manual under the "Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System (US models)"
"1. The EGR system meters exhaust gases into the engine induction system through passages cast into the intake manifold. From there the exhaust gases pass into the fuel/air mixture for the purpose of lowering combustion temperatures, thereby reducing the amount of oxides of nitrogen (NOX) formed."
And then it goes on to say problems associated with the egr system include poor performance, more smoke, poor combustion, and knocking under load. Hence my going to do away with it
In any case I still think it would be nice to have one
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-02-2011
"for the purpose of lowering combustion temperatures,"
I don't get how that works. I guess there might be some way using nasty hot gas that didn't burn the first time around in liue of, some nice cool air and fresh fuel can lower exhaust temps.
Doesn't sound good to me right off the bat though.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-02-2011
I agree, it does seem like a waste
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - dieselboy - 11-03-2011
It may be due to the lack of oxygen in the recirculated gasses that it causes the egts to lower?? Just a guess.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-03-2011
That is what I was thinking, that it basically chokes the engine. Either way it decreases efficiency
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-04-2011
I put the fram 8038 on last night, and after driving around today I decided there wasn't any noticeable change in power, the only thing that really changed was how the car sounds at speeds less than 40 mph. Now I can't decide if I should swap manifolds next or turn up the turbo, any suggestions?
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-04-2011
manifolds
exhaust delete (straight exhaust)
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-05-2011
Manifolds it is then, I'll be ordering a new gasket tomorrow. Also installed a boost gauge and was surprised the car still puts out the stock 8 lbs. I came to the conclusion the car is louder because the stock air box was directing the sound of the broken exhaust pipe downwards, and since it is now gone it resononates under the hood some. Probably gonna go see what straight piping will cost in the next week or so because I like being able to hear the radio lol
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Volker407 - 11-05-2011
(11-02-2011, 05:36 AM)larsalan "for the purpose of lowering combustion temperatures,"
I don't get how that works. I guess there might be some way using nasty hot gas that didn't burn the first time around in liue of, some nice cool air and fresh fuel can lower exhaust temps.
Doesn't sound good to me right off the bat though.
Like Dieselboy said, the idea is to add non-reacting gas to the combustion process through the EGR because the exhaust gas has almost no more oxygen available. So less fuel will burn.
Of course that doesn´t help performance. German W123 with OM617a never had an EGR system and have 125HP stock instead of 115HP stock like the US-versions. (but not only because of the missing EGR system)
Gruß
Volker
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-05-2011
When the EGR system gets removed, what should I do with the vacuum lines on top of the valve cover that control the egr valve, just block them??
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 11-06-2011
(11-05-2011, 03:04 PM)sassparilla_kid When the EGR system gets removed, what should I do with the vacuum lines on top of the valve cover that control the egr valve, just block them??
Put a screw in the line haha
If you have a manual boost controller turn it up to 10-12psi. See what gives you best performance...
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-06-2011
Yeah that's pretty much what I was planning on doing, or maybe putting in a vacuum gauge inside the cab. And as for the turbo it just has the stock Garrett T3 so I have no idea what would need to be done for more boost. On a related note I have an extra one in the garage I can screw around with
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - mike-81-240d - 11-07-2011
(11-06-2011, 04:28 PM)sassparilla_kid Garrett T3 so I have no idea what would need to be done for more boost.http://www.ebay.com/itm/NXS-MANUAL-BOOST-CONTROLLER-GSX-GST-TSI-EVO-1-8-XS-MBC-/260352448835?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3c9e371943#ht_3756wt_1270
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-07-2011
Im not sure If I correctly understand how this thing works? Basically it uses boost pressure (tee into ALDA line?) to control the wastegate actuator? I undertand the concept (for the most part) but I think I'd need to see a picture of one installed or be looking at the turbo on the car to see how it all comes together
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - aaa - 11-07-2011
The garrett has it's own separate short piece of hose going from the compressor housing to the wastegate actuator. So you'd tee into that hose to manipulate when the wastegate gets actuated.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-08-2011
So the two ports with hose barbs would essentially be connected in series into the the line from the compressor housing to the wastegate actuator? So it is preventing/delaying the boost pressure from reaching the actuator until the set boost pushes the bearing back. If that's correct then it makes perfect sense now
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 11-08-2011
Yeah It just bleeds off boost pressure to trick the wastegate into functioning at a higher pressure
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-08-2011
Well that seems simple enough, I guess I'll be ordering one up sometime in the near future then
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-08-2011
Or you can just adjust the wastegate. That way you can save a few $. Though it is a biatch
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-08-2011
Yeah I'd rather pay a little more for the convenience at this point, although I probably wont be doing anything with the turbo until after I swap manifolds
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - Captain America - 11-08-2011
Upping the boost now to at least 10 will help a tad before the mani swap
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - iheartboost - 11-08-2011
i still need to get a boost gauge. man working on cars sucks when you dont have any money for parts lol.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-08-2011
(11-08-2011, 06:45 PM)iheartboost i still need to get a boost gauge. man working on cars sucks when you dont have any money for parts lol.
word. Beer or parts
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-08-2011
Brew your own beer!! My friend and I want to try our hands at brewing since our still broke lol. Yeah I plan on ordering one of those boost controllers sooon, since its probably gonna be a little while until I have the time to swap manifolds, especially since I don't have the gaskets yet haha, but the guy at napa said he was gonna order them tomorrow morning so we'll see what happens
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - larsalan - 11-09-2011
Adjusting the wastegate takes about 1 give or take for me. Feels like longer though cause of the frustrating little parts and the tiny area they are in.
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - iheartboost - 11-09-2011
just disconnect the waste gate FULL BOOST! lol jk
RE: Intake/exhaust questions - sassparilla_kid - 11-09-2011
Hahaha that would be awesome except if anything happened to the car I would have to drive a bright red saturn vue :/