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Electronic IP interchange? - Printable Version

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Electronic IP interchange? - gen3performance - 03-17-2011

Just wondering if anyone can tell me if the 98-99 injection pumps will work on the 96-97 mercedes cars without any problems.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - ForcedInduction - 03-17-2011

No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - E300TSC - 03-17-2011

I thought the '96's have the same engine as the '95's but the '97 - '99's are the same.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - ForcedInduction - 03-18-2011

95: All mechanical non-turbo, 5.5mm elements.
96-97: Computerized non-turbo, 5.5mm elements.
98-99: Computerized turbo, 6mm elements.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - E300TSC - 03-18-2011

OK, maybe I'm getting the transmissions mixed up with the other technology. I know the 96 has the older 4 speed.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - mantahead - 03-18-2011

(03-17-2011, 05:48 PM)ForcedInduction No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.
hi,
how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?





RE: Electronic IP interchange? - pp d - 03-19-2011

(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead
(03-17-2011, 05:48 PM)ForcedInduction No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.
hi,
how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?

Hi guys,

It won`t see it.
I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.



RE: Electronic IP interchange? - 300D50 - 03-19-2011

On the subject of programing and remaping, how much does the remap software cost?
Is it available to the US market?


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - ForcedInduction - 03-19-2011

(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?
The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.

(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - 300D50 - 03-19-2011

I agree, large irregularities between the expected RPM vs rack position will throw it into limp.

Maybe it went into limp mode, but limp mode with the larger elements was compareable to regular? Or possibly the switch from 6.5 to 7 IS close enough to the allowed margin of error that the ECU just goes about buisiness as normal, and learns the new correction factors? Huh



RE: Electronic IP interchange? - pp d - 03-19-2011

I don`t know about contradictory, it just goes like I wroteDodgy


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - mantahead - 04-08-2011

(03-19-2011, 05:57 AM)ForcedInduction
(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?
The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.

(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.

what do you always say forced? this is false.
well i will say no more.
I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - tomnik - 04-09-2011

(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.

PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?

Tom


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - mantahead - 04-09-2011

(04-09-2011, 02:08 PM)tomnik
(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.

PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?

Tom
hi Tom,
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.

wayne



RE: Electronic IP interchange? - E300TSC - 04-09-2011

(04-09-2011, 05:20 PM)mantahead hi Tom,
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.

wayne

Wayne,

I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along. Angry



RE: Electronic IP interchange? - JTY - 04-10-2011

Trust forced he knows everything Smile

The ECM doesn't know about element delivery, it only know rack movement and position, inbuilt map is for standard elements.
So it's fully possible to change the elements and it just works, but if you change too large elements the closed and part throttle injection must be changed.
Anyway i don't see the point to change elements but not touch the maps, it's pretty easy to adjust the maps anyway, but if it's too hard go with mechanical IP.




RE: Electronic IP interchange? - mantahead - 04-11-2011



Wayne,

I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along. Angry

[/quote]hi,
good man, do you know how to change elements?
what is your modified rack position feddback circuit?

wayne


RE: Electronic IP interchange? - yankneck696 - 04-11-2011

JTY... Do you have any info on remapping for the average person to do?

Ed