190DT - Printable Version

190DT - Printable Version

+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: 190DT (/showthread.php?tid=2408)

190DT - Ducos - 03-17-2011

Hello. Im from norway, and i have had my 190D for 5years with the om601. This weekend it will be a om603 turbo. For starters it will just be original. The pump will be maxxed out pretty soon. And i may think of tuning the pump :-) can i drive with the original drivetrain? A friendof mine has a ASD diffrential i think i will put on! Tips for my conversion? Big Grin

RE: 190DT - 300D50 - 03-17-2011

Welcome to the forum!

I think you should be good with the original drivetrain, just be gentle on the transmission. An LSD sounds like a very good idea too. Smile

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-17-2011

(03-17-2011, 02:10 AM)300D50 Welcome to the forum!

I think you should be good with the original drivetrain, just be gentle on the transmission. An LSD sounds like a very good idea too.

Thanks! Looking forward to know more about diesels. Im going to sell my gasoline car. I think it has a driking problem! Rolleyes

shal i go for 3" or 2.5" exhaust? Thinking about upgrading the engine when im tired of the 150hp Smile

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-17-2011

The driveshaft joint, yokes (as well the yoke on the trans and rear diff) and flex disks are much bigger on the om603. I am currently facing this issue as well as the DS I have in there has the smaller yoke and flex disc at the front. This might be a solution: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-flex-disks

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-18-2011

So i cant just take the engine and tranny down and put the om603+tranny in? It will not fit?

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-18-2011

Oh it will fit, all you need to worry about is the driveshaft. Get the dimensions on the driveshaft yoke on the transmission you want and compare it to the yoke on the driveshaft you have now. Do the same with the ASD differential. I think both of them will have larger yokes, but you can simply weld the proper ones on, any decent machine shop should be able to do this.

RE: 190DT - George3soccer - 03-18-2011

If you are sticking with the stock turbo for now, go for 2.5", but if you upgrade turbo to a hx size then 3" is much better,

Please let us know on any updates of the swap.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-18-2011

this is how the old one looks like, been there ever since new with a km of like 340k

woops! it fell out!!!

tomorrow morning ill start to take the 3liter out of my w124, and put it in the 201 Smile

it has webasto, defa, you name it! I guess i'lll be driving without anything more then a 1meter flexi downpipe for exhaust, hehe. Should i just build 3 inch exhaust right away? My understanding of turboengines says the bigger exhaust the better.

Currently modding (wide'ing) a couple of front fenders to my w201 2.5turbo also, so thinking about doing the same to this one. they will be painted this week and mounted untill next weekend. I can post a photo if anyone want to see! Shy

this will be fun!

thinking of a HX35 after.. I want 300bhp. thats enough. Or is it?

RE: 190DT - George3soccer - 03-19-2011

Very good turbo for your applications. In this case do the 3 inch will be there for you when you put in the hx35.

What engine mounts are you going to use.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-19-2011

I'm using the original mounts for now. i need to use the car untill next weekend. Havent finished painting my summer car yet.

Thanks, ill go 3inch then. Will it make much sound? im thinking of making it a silenced killer! Atleast 2 silencers under the car and 1 large at the end. Everybody knows that my car is slow as shit, but on monday it will be fast Big Grin

I have to buy a new hood. its from 83/84 so i had to cut away the stabalizer.

Tomorrow all thats left is to mount the radiator, drill a hole in the fender and innerfender to mount the original airfilterbox.

I am very happy with this swap, kinda looks original Angel

Will be fun when the diff makes the last gear go to 160km/h! loaads of acceleration ! hope i dont break anything Rolleyes

Any tips for new front springs? i have Cobra lowering springs. But the car is pretty much TOOO low right now with the 3liter!

RE: 190DT - George3soccer - 03-20-2011

I would get stiffer front springs. Because of the added few more lbs. I went with 500e front springs cut them to my liking and rides very good. Still nose heavy but I need to make a few weight distributions.

The swap does look very much like it came stock.

How are you going about with the radiator and the Power steering issue.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-21-2011

100% fit :-) just need a new stabilizer in the frOnt now... Kinda expensive.. 2500NOK. can i use the stabilizer from a w124 or wont it fit?? That would be easy'er Smile

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-21-2011

Stabilizer == swaybar? Yes you can use the W124. You will want a sportline, 400e or 500. The 500s are $250US. I am using a 400 bar on the front now.

RE: 190DT - George3soccer - 03-21-2011

Well the stock stabilizer will not work, I have not tried a w124 (400e, or 500e) stabilizer just yet, but I dont think it would fit on a w201 with a om603. But please let me know I have not yet tried one on.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-21-2011

My donor car is a 250D with a 300DT engine. I dont know if the sway bar has been changed. I used it and it fitted 100% after i cut of 3cm of each side. clears the oil pan with 1cm, fits just perfect. I have an issue though.. my diff ratio is 3.27... 4th gear ends i 160km/h if you know what i mean.. 2th gear 70km/h. The 2.5turbo diesel 190D has 2.65, that car actually feels faster because of that... can i use a w124 diff without changing my drive shafts?

this will be fun! getting my plates tomorrow after work! Cool

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-22-2011

Now i got my plates and took the car for a spin. Feels like it goes really badly.. shifts into 4th at 100km/h if i dont lock it in 3 gear.

I feel like the engine is missing power. Any tips to what may cause bad performance? using a cone filter at the time, so the filter is not clogged :-) exhaust is like 30cm, so not that either.

thanks Smile

RE: 190DT - tomnik - 03-23-2011

fuel filter, throttle linkage, boost lines, over boost protection, turbo issues (boost pressure gauge?).
Does the engine run smoothly besides no power (whatever this means)?

Tom

RE: 190DT - willbhere4u - 03-23-2011

Check that it has a boost line running to the ALDA on the injection pump!

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-23-2011

Dont use a cone filter if you can avoid it. Did you check IP timing?

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-24-2011

the alda is "removed" (it sits there but the screw is adjusted max up, and it self has been tighed just a couple of spins down.. (i'm really bad at explaning things, the english isnt making it any easyer, it sits there, but really high up on the screw around the "valve?")

Im using a cone filter right now.. I have to wait until saturday before i can use the shop again, dont like the sound, so the 300DT filter box is comming :-)

IP timing? no, i dont know how, and where i do this. Can this be done by my self? This feels like the answer im looking for.

The only thing who is not connected that i know of, is the EGR. On the 300DT it was just hooked up to a switch near the light switch.

any more ideas??

Smile

(03-23-2011, 04:41 AM)tomnik fuel filter, throttle linkage, boost lines, over boost protection, turbo issues (boost pressure gauge?).
Does the engine run smoothly besides no power (whatever this means)?

Tom

It has power already. But I have a original 190D 2.5 turbodiesel. the alda is removed there to, and it runs very much better, feels like day and night. I always thought the om603 turbo would run better then om602.

the throttle likages is fine i think. When im doing full throttle the pump link goes all the way down(i hope).

feels like im having a lack of horsepower. Have you guys heard about Dynolicious? I saw a video on youtube where they did a dyno run, and tested the app against Gtech. The iphone app just missed 2-3-4horsepower. The 2.5 turbo has 90WHP and my 3.0 has 78. makes sense thogh. it dont run as good as the 2.5

boost gauge is mounted, 0.85bar. I just feel like fuel is missing. If you know what i mean. Or that the engine isnt eating all the air.

Undecided

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-24-2011

Yes timing is pretty easy. There is a special tool for it that will lock the IP. Rotate Engine to 14ATDC open the RIV port on the IP and you will see the tang in there. Put the tool in there and then adjust IP (unlock the IP by the three bolts on the front of enging block and the back bolt). Plenty of threads on this out there.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-24-2011

(03-24-2011, 01:35 PM)winmutt Yes timing is pretty easy. There is a special tool for it that will lock the IP. Rotate Engine to 14ATDC open the RIV port on the IP and you will see the tang in there. Put the tool in there and then adjust IP (unlock the IP by the three bolts on the front of enging block and the back bolt). Plenty of threads on this out there.

is it usual that you have to adjust it after a while?

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 03-26-2011

(03-24-2011, 06:48 PM)Ducos
(03-24-2011, 01:35 PM)winmutt Yes timing is pretty easy. There is a special tool for it that will lock the IP. Rotate Engine to 14ATDC open the RIV port on the IP and you will see the tang in there. Put the tool in there and then adjust IP (unlock the IP by the three bolts on the front of enging block and the back bolt). Plenty of threads on this out there.

is it usual that you have to adjust it after a while?

Yes, along with cam timing. Are you sure the linkage is hitting max stop on the IP?

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-26-2011

Hmm. No not really. but when i hooked up the wire i did a wide open throttle and tried to push the linkage further down, it wouldnt move. Maybe i need to loosen some screws on the linkage?

I dont feel like it uses alot of fuel either.. but there is black smoke comming out when i do WOT.

Will those adjustment have a major thing to say in power? Then the linkage sounds more convincing. I thought the car would atleast run the same as a 2.5 turbo.

RE: 190DT - George3soccer - 03-26-2011

How's the engine sound compared to the 602. When it's running at idle and then when you rev it up. Kind of similar? Louder?

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-26-2011

(03-26-2011, 10:41 AM)George3soccer How's the engine sound compared to the 602. When it's running at idle and then when you rev it up. Kind of similar? Louder?

sounds very good. No knocks or anything.

RE: 190DT - erling66 - 03-26-2011

Did the 603 run as it should when it was in the w124? If so, then you know that you did something wrong when you mounted it

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-26-2011

i dont know... It felt a bit faster, but the diff in the w201 has 3.27 or something like that, the 250D diff has less. so maybe it felt faster because of that. I think i will chech all the things you guys have listed :-)

Just need the snow to go away.. im on summer rims.. Angel

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-28-2011

I cant testdrive it due to the snow, but i let it warm up a bit and did a few revs to show you guys a little of the car Shy

RE: 190DT - Einar - 03-30-2011

If I was going to do this swap, I Would use the 124 engine, trans and diff, I believe you can use the 124 drive shafts too.

EGR should be not active if not connected, but you can try to check if the EGR-valve is closed and the EGR "throttlebody" is open(does the turbo have the "throttlebody"?)

Is the ALDA hooked up, it may reduce the fuel if adjusted max also.

Same text in Norwegian Hvis eg skulle gjort denne konverteringa, så ville eg brukt motor, gir og klokke fra 124, trur faktisk drivakslingane passer over au.

EGR burde ikkje være i gang om den ikkje er tilkobla, men det er vel ikke dumt å sjekke om den er helt ute av drift, få sjekka om ventilen er lukka, og om du har spjeld, at det står åpent, trur ikke turbo har spjeldet.

Er ALDA kobla opp, skulle ikkje forundre meg om den reduserte dieselmangda sjøl om den er maks-justert.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 03-30-2011

(03-30-2011, 02:55 AM)Einar If I was going to do this swap, I Would use the 124 engine, trans and diff, I believe you can use the 124 drive shafts too.

EGR should be not active if not connected, but you can try to check if the EGR-valve is closed and the EGR "throttlebody" is open(does the turbo have the "throttlebody"?)

Is the ALDA hooked up, it may reduce the fuel if adjusted max also.

Same text in Norwegian Hvis eg skulle gjort denne konverteringa, så ville eg brukt motor, gir og klokke fra 124, trur faktisk drivakslingane passer over au.

EGR burde ikkje være i gang om den ikkje er tilkobla, men det er vel ikke dumt å sjekke om den er helt ute av drift, få sjekka om ventilen er lukka, og om du har spjeld, at det står åpent, trur ikke turbo har spjeldet.

Er ALDA kobla opp, skulle ikkje forundre meg om den reduserte dieselmangda sjøl om den er maks-justert.

On the W124 the egr was just a button to + and -
Shal i try to give it 12v? Or in this case 14.4? I did a beeb test with a multimeter and it was connection between + and the + on the battery. So i guess its '12v'. The diff is making the car underperform. But i thought atleast it would be better in a lighter chassie. Will have a look :-)

RE: 190DT - babymog - 03-30-2011

If you have good boost, low power, with excess black smoke and higher than expected EGT I would suspect retarded injection timing.

RE: 190DT - Einar - 03-30-2011

Sway bar: The original TDT sportline is 28mm, I have heard about people usin 124-sway-bars on 201.
Springs, you should use springs for a well equipped 190E 2.6, or you could chop the 124-springs

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-08-2011

This is my old exhaust (kinda just welded together with rusty parts)
It eventually fell off and i bought a brand new 190D exhaust.

This is without lowering.

Front without lowering, thise pics are from last years summer

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-14-2011

For now i do not have a oil cooler. My gauges stars popping up in the mail box. So i think its about time to start having some fun with the fuel pump.

I did alot of searching about the 300DT/300TDT differential ratio. Found quite many answers. Do any of you know what diff the finn's use? i recon the 300D is using a 2.65.. but i never found out anything about the turboed one.. Tired of burning rubber everytime i make a turn with 3.23 Diff. haha Angel

RE: 190DT - Einar - 04-15-2011

300DT/TDT: 2.65
300TD: 3.07
300D: 2.87
250DT: 2.65
250D: 3.07
250TD 3.23(3.27 ASD)
200D 3.46
200TD 3.64(3.67 ASD)
All 4 speed auto

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-17-2011

(04-15-2011, 12:34 PM)Einar 300DT/TDT: 2.65
300TD: 3.07
300D: 2.87
250DT: 2.65
250D: 3.07
250TD 3.23(3.27 ASD)
200D 3.46
200TD 3.64(3.67 ASD)
All 4 speed auto

****.... This will be hard..... especially since the turbodiesels are rare in norway..

On friday on my way to work. i heard a loud DOOOOONK! then som screaming in the tires... My ******* Track controll arm balljoint / supporting joint just BROKE in two pieces.. No warning or anything..

atleast because of that i got my EGT sensor mounted :-) Looking forward to share some pictures of the car as it is.. Just need a new fender or two.. its kinda broke.. :-)

RE: 190DT - Einar - 04-17-2011

Ducos:
Jeg har kjørt med 3.07:1 på min TDT, det funka bra, men blir litt mere kortbeina.
Den motoren din ser absolutt ikke ut til å være en turbo-motor, men en 300D med ettermontert innsug og eksos til 300DT, spørs om ikke den dieselpumpa trenger en real runde justering for at den skal yte som en turbomotor, og fremdeles mangler oljekjølte stempel, natriumkjølte ventiler, turbo stempler og råder, og ikke minst ALDA.

I have been driving with 3.07:1 ratio on my old 300TDT, it did the job good, but a bit lower top speed.
Your engine does not look like a turbo engine at all, looks like a 300D with 300DT intake and exhaust, maybe your fuel pump needs adjustment before your engine will go like a turbo, and you still miss much parts.

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 04-18-2011

(04-15-2011, 12:34 PM)Einar 300DT/TDT: 2.65
300TD: 3.07
300D: 2.87
250DT: 2.65
250D: 3.07
250TD 3.23(3.27 ASD)
200D 3.46
200TD 3.64(3.67 ASD)
All 4 speed auto

87 300d is 2,65 not the 2.87 that you indicate?

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-18-2011

(04-17-2011, 04:32 PM)Einar Ducos:
Jeg har kjørt med 3.07:1 på min TDT, det funka bra, men blir litt mere kortbeina.
Den motoren din ser absolutt ikke ut til å være en turbo-motor, men en 300D med ettermontert innsug og eksos til 300DT, spørs om ikke den dieselpumpa trenger en real runde justering for at den skal yte som en turbomotor, og fremdeles mangler oljekjølte stempel, natriumkjølte ventiler, turbo stempler og råder, og ikke minst ALDA.

I have been driving with 3.07:1 ratio on my old 300TDT, it did the job good, but a bit lower top speed.
Your engine does not look like a turbo engine at all, looks like a 300D with 300DT intake and exhaust, maybe your fuel pump needs adjustment before your engine will go like a turbo, and you still miss much parts.

Har tenkt tanken sjøl. Men pumpa er 5.5element ifølge serienummeret. Alda er der :-) men "demontert". diffen er 3.23 så når motoren begynner å dra så girer den bare... er mye mer moment enn 2.5dt'n men den går bedre på gira liksom..

Have thought about it. But the pump serialnumber says 55 (5.5) the Alda is there, but disabled. the differential is 3.23 so when the engine starts to pull it just shifts gear. Thats why the 2.5 is faster i think ..

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 04-19-2011

How can the ALDA be there but be disabled?

RE: 190DT - Einar - 04-19-2011

(04-18-2011, 12:51 PM)winmutt
(04-15-2011, 12:34 PM)Einar 300D: 2.87

87 300d is 2,65 not the 2.87 that you indicate?

Is that with or W/O Turbo, here they have 2.87 I think, but with Turbo they have 2.65.

(04-19-2011, 09:07 AM)winmutt How can the ALDA be there but be disabled?

I think he means that the Alda is adjusted maximum.

Ducos:
What is you diesel pump part number?

Did the 124 feel faster?
What about the diff in the 124.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-20-2011

(04-19-2011, 01:16 PM)Einar
(04-18-2011, 12:51 PM)winmutt
(04-15-2011, 12:34 PM)Einar 300D: 2.87

87 300d is 2,65 not the 2.87 that you indicate?

Is that with or W/O Turbo, here they have 2.87 I think, but with Turbo they have 2.65.

(04-19-2011, 09:07 AM)winmutt How can the ALDA be there but be disabled?
I think he means that the Alda is adjusted maximum.

Ducos:
What is you diesel pump part number?

Did the 124 feel faster?
What about the diff in the 124.

Ok. Let me put it in another way. The alda _was_ there :-) no. The 190 feels quicker. But the w124 has a 250D diff i recon since it was a 250D with a 300DT swap. I can find the pump number when i get home from work Smile

had to use another car..... The other ball joint made the same sound as the first 5mins before it broke down... Dont want to go down that road again Dodgy

where is the engine block number? That will determine if it is a turbo or was N/A :-)

RE: 190DT - Einar - 04-20-2011

Motornummeret sitter på blokka over dieselpumpa, på samme flaten som toppakninga ligger an på.

A really bad explanation about where the engine number sits

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-22-2011

o my **** god.. my hood smashed up at 120km/h. Christ this car hates me........

RE: 190DT - winmutt - 04-22-2011

Flew up? I am religious about verifying my hood is secure after I saw the dmg from a friends w123 after the hood flew up on him.

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-22-2011

(04-22-2011, 01:31 PM)winmutt Flew up? I am religious about verifying my hood is secure after I saw the dmg from a friends w123 after the hood flew up on him.

yeah. smashed into the roof. frontwindow is intact. Looks like i have to double check after everytime i slam it down.... Angry

RE: 190DT - yankneck696 - 04-22-2011

I've had a hood come loose on me.... I check them daily now. Yeah, it may be paranoia, but I do a quick walkaround every day with my work truck.

Ed

RE: 190DT - Ducos - 04-30-2011

Fixed the hood with a sledge hammer and a big piece of wood. Now it locks down.

Thinking of ordering a HX35 from ebay. But i cant find out witch oil restrictor to use? anyone have the experiance? Smile

RE: 190DT - willbhere4u - 04-30-2011

new hood flat black!