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+--- Thread: ABS (/showthread.php?tid=237)
ABS - winmutt - 02-06-2009
Last night a SOB in a SUV ( "I'm sick of these SOBs/ Driving these SUVs/ Trying to run over me when I'm in my beat-up car,", funny blues sone you should listen to it) nearly ran me off the road while changing lanes talking on the phone, while speeding. Couldn't even be bothered to stop and see if I was ok. Rashed up my rims which survived 30years nary a scratch. I had locked up the front end and contacted the curb before I let off the brakes.
Needless to say I am back on the hunt for installing ABS. Coupled with a crappy rubber boot on my non OE/M balljoints and torn up spindles, this will make for a nice upgrade. No I know in ABS models the back end has a sensor in the diff. Is this true on all models? In order to install ABS I would need either a diff with this sensor or some way to recreate or bypass the signal. Ideas?
Alternatively I could get an arduino board to control the ABS but I'd rather go OE if possible.
RE: ABS - ForcedInduction - 02-06-2009
You can always go aftermarket. I'm sure there are lots of hot-rod restorers that want/need ABS for their ancient machines.
I'll help you research a bit later tonight.
RE: ABS - winmutt - 02-06-2009
Aftermarket ain't cheap. There are have a dozen or more ABS equipped 126/201/124 in the yard right now and that is cheap.
RE: ABS - winmutt - 02-10-2009
Anyone have 201/124/126 manual covering ABS?
RE: ABS - Kozuka - 03-11-2009
I do.
This site has all of the 124 manuals (on the left side CD1 and CD2).
http://mb.auto.pl/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
PM me if you want the W201 Manual.
On a subsequent notice. Would you happen to know the part numbers for non-abs Mercedes Splitter/Balancer things, I want to delete the abs off my W201. I've driven a non-abs W201 before but I don't own it anymore to own on the parts.
Or More Specifically.
http://mb.auto.pl/wis/w124/CD02/Chassis/42-0700.pdf
Thanks,
Ian
RE: ABS - theboys_dad - 03-11-2009
I'm new to forum. I have the factory cds manual from 114 to the 126 chassis,
RE: ABS - Kozuka - 03-13-2009
I think they also offered ABS as an option on the w116.
Service manual link.
http://handbook.w116.org/
RE: ABS - oel_brenner - 03-25-2009
you want ABS on the 123 right ?
it was an option the last year ..
there is a 123 at my local boneyard with ABS..
all the parts are there, and it does have the sensor in the diff,
so you would have to swap the center section in.
RE: ABS - winmutt - 03-26-2009
(03-25-2009, 01:45 PM)oel_brenner you want ABS on the 123 right ?
it was an option the last year ..
there is a 123 at my local boneyard with ABS..
all the parts are there, and it does have the sensor in the diff,
so you would have to swap the center section in.
LSD diff by any chance?
RE: ABS - ForcedInduction - 03-26-2009
Not in a W123
RE: ABS - JB3 - 04-22-2009
When I swapped rear ends from 3.07 to 2.88, I used a 1985 300SD rear end that had been equipped with diff mounted ABS. The rear end was identical in all other dimensions and fit the 123 no problem, but the sensor was on the passenger front of the housing reading off a speed sensor on the pinion shaft. I dont imagine that would be too easy to swap. Maybe you could find one of these rear ends in a junkyard.
Ironically, I removed the sensor and plugged the hole.
RE: ABS - unaleman - 09-13-2009
there is an 1985 280e at my upull-it here in Albuquerque that has ABS on it
RE: ABS - winmutt - 09-14-2009
Ooooooooooooo. Can you take pics?
RE: ABS - JB3 - 01-17-2010
Its been a while since this discussion was active, but I was working on a mid 90s chevy truck the other day, which did not have ABS, but we accidentally ordered ABS half shafts, so we knocked the rings off instead of dickering with the parts delivery guy.
Why not source one of these extra rings and finagle it onto the inner drum of a MB axle, then mount a hall effect sensor on the outside of the diff itself?
RE: ABS - winmutt - 01-19-2010
I dont really think there is a need for the diff sensor, all that is needed is replacing the front spindles and hubs and of course the ABS controller/pump. I mean locking the rear isn't that big of a deal IMO.
RE: ABS - ForcedInduction - 01-19-2010
It needs the rear to know the speed difference from the front to back. If you only have sensors on the front and both fronts lock up, it won't know they've locked.
Adding a tone ring to an axle or the driveshaft would be less of a challenge.
RE: ABS - winmutt - 01-19-2010
I dont get how that is. Its just a rotary sensor. I guess it needs to know that you are actually moving, you could probably use the cruise control sensor for that.
RE: ABS - Nick - 05-14-2010
hey winmutt,
there is an '85 280CE local to me with ABS. it must have been a grey market because it even has the trunk triangle and SLS on the rear axle..
if you want i'd be glad to go take some pics and get part numbers for you. im sure the owner would not mind.
RE: ABS - ForcedInduction - 05-14-2010
Get the struts in any case, they are different from the wagon and could fetch a pretty penny.
RE: ABS - mcwfxx - 11-21-2015
I know i'm reviving a very old thread, but... as it was relevant, I wondered if anyone had any more data on w124 wheel speed sensors / the diff speed sensor. Did anyone ever get any further with this?
I've removed the ESP unit from my vito van, as it won't be liking the lack of other ecu's, but it would seem wise to keep ABS on for UK MOT / insurance possible issues in the event of an accident. I looked into using the ABS off the donor W210, however it has CAN bus connections too to the abs unit.
I then wondered about using a w124 pump and control unit, as they are available very cheap and pre CAN. I can't place my hands on the diagram at the moment.
Anyway the question I was going to ask, is has anyone had an ABS equipped Diff. apart from a w124 or similar setup? If so how does the rear sensor work, is it a toothed ring like other wheel speed sensors usually are of that era?
I'm wondering if i'll need to accurately work out the diff ratio and convert it so that on my van it's turning the exact same speed (easier to get it within tolerance if there are many teeth - harder if there are fewer i think?
Or do i just "Go without" and hope for the best. Hmm decisions!
I did think, despite the vito having wheel speed sensors (rear ones faulty) just fitting a pair of w124 reluctor rings on the inside of the bearing at the front, then a custom made wheel/ring at the rear on diff flange.
If no one knows, i'll have to acquire a diff and findout
Thanks....
I've removed the ESP unit from my vito van, as it won't be liking the lack of other ecu's, but it would seem wise to keep ABS on for UK MOT / insurance possible issues in the event of an accident. I looked into using the ABS off the donor W210, however it has CAN bus connections too to the abs unit.
I then wondered about using a w124 pump and control unit, as they are available very cheap and pre CAN. I can't place my hands on the diagram at the moment.
Anyway the question I was going to ask, is has anyone had an ABS equipped Diff. apart from a w124 or similar setup? If so how does the rear sensor work, is it a toothed ring like other wheel speed sensors usually are of that era?
I'm wondering if i'll need to accurately work out the diff ratio and convert it so that on my van it's turning the exact same speed (easier to get it within tolerance if there are many teeth - harder if there are fewer i think?
Or do i just "Go without" and hope for the best. Hmm decisions!
I did think, despite the vito having wheel speed sensors (rear ones faulty) just fitting a pair of w124 reluctor rings on the inside of the bearing at the front, then a custom made wheel/ring at the rear on diff flange.
If no one knows, i'll have to acquire a diff and findout
Thanks....
RE: ABS - raysorenson - 11-23-2015
The toothed wheel is on the pinion gear. Different ratios get different wheels.
I'm not 100% sure that CAN is a problem. Just because the ABS module sends and receives can messages doesn't necessarily mean it won't perform base ABS functions as a standalone.
RE: ABS - mcwfxx - 11-26-2015
(11-23-2015, 01:24 PM)raysorenson The toothed wheel is on the pinion gear. Different ratios get different wheels.
I'm not 100% sure that CAN is a problem. Just because the ABS module sends and receives can messages doesn't necessarily mean it won't perform base ABS functions as a standalone.
I see what you're saying - never thought about trying it out with can disconnected. It doesn't help that i sold the esp unit off it. oops.
I've still got the w210 esp unit, out of interest i may just pull the can lines off and see how it behaves
I've done a bit of research and found a document for the 124, 129, 140, 201, 202 models
http://www.w124performance.com/service/w124CD2/Program/Chassis/42-0714.pdf
if gives the number of teeth required vs axle ratio.
I was at the local scrapyard today and ended up picking up most of a wiring harness (cut some wires), the ECU, pump, overvoltage relay from a w202.
also of interest is:
https://community.mercedes.me/media/files/forum_attachment/1f/1fa9e4e4-74e0-ebcc-6e72-29a9488949c8-brake-abs-function-testing-mitchell.pdf
RE: ABS - Tobulus - 11-29-2015
From all I remember the Number of teeth i the Differential ist related to the gear ratio to give the same number of impulses per wheel rotation as the front sensors. If I were you I would hang a 124 ABS in with the input of the diff sensor just connectrd to one of the rear wheel sensors. That should work just fine
RE: ABS - mcwfxx - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 09:35 AM)Tobulus From all I remember the Number of teeth i the Differential ist related to the gear ratio to give the same number of impulses per wheel rotation as the front sensors. If I were you I would hang a 124 ABS in with the input of the diff sensor just connectrd to one of the rear wheel sensors. That should work just fine
That makes sense. In fact it makes perfect sense - why didnt i think of that?!
I'm going to get engine in and plumb the abs unit up so the brakes work. I'm happy this setup will do the job i need :-)
I can always fit a pressure limiting valve / adjustable to the rear circuit to prevent locking most of the time, they used that setup on non-esp (but abs) Merc Smart cars, although it was with a fixed limiter.
Many more things to worry about first
Thanks
ooh, PS. does anyone have a list of the hydraulic ports on the w124/201/202 abs unit? I noticed briefly they are lettered, but didnt note them down from the car at scrapyard (another mistake!)
RE: ABS - Tobulus - 12-06-2015
V = Input from master cylinder front circuit
H = Input from master cylinder rear circuit
VL = Output front left wheel
VR = Output front right wheel
HL = Output rear left wheel
HR = Output rear right wheel
RE: ABS - mcwfxx - 12-06-2015
Thanks very much for that Tobulus, makes sense. :-) Once i've got some paint on her, i'll get the ABS pump mounted and brakes plumbed up. Wiring can be done later, but needed to get pipes correct :-)
Thanks