+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: 7 mm (/showthread.php?tid=2022)
7 mm - AMG - 11-30-2010
Hello !
Can you please explain me how looks 7mm elements/pistons and with what thay are differs with 5mm elements? Can you please show the pictures of both parts? Thank you!
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 11-30-2010
5.5 and 7, 7.5mm refer to the diameter of the plunger inside the element of the injection pump. There is one for each cylinder of the M.B. engine. Some other makes used different arrangements
If upgrading, this must be done by a Proper Injection-shop, Its not summit you can do yourself...
This is what an element looks like--
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 11-30-2010
8mm is todays word
RE: 7 mm - ForcedInduction - 11-30-2010
10mm is already commercially available and in use.
RE: 7 mm - Jtn190D - 11-30-2010
10mm should be able to supply a lot of fuel. How much hp would be possible with that much fuel?
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 12-01-2010
(11-30-2010, 03:22 PM)ForcedInduction 10mm is already commercially available and in use.How much those give fuel? Any dyno result of those?
RE: 7 mm - George3soccer - 12-01-2010
Allot of hp. Its not a science or a given number/formula of how much 10mm elements will yield hp. But It does yield a specific flow amount.
From there its all a matter of multiple parameters (turbo, motor, etc...)
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-01-2010
Thanks! But in what a difference between 7мм and 5.5мм?
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-01-2010
(12-01-2010, 12:10 PM)AMG Thanks! But in what a difference between 7мм and 5.5мм?
Err.....
1.5mm.....
7mm is Bigger by 1.5mm, therefore has a greater pump output volume.
RE: 7 mm - ForcedInduction - 12-01-2010
For these plungers, if all 8mm stroke were used (it can't be) this is the plunger volume per bore size.
5.5mm=0.190ccm
6mm=0.226ccm
7mm=0.307ccm
10mm=0.628ccm
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-01-2010
It is bigger at length? Diameter? Can show on a picture than it bigger ?
RE: 7 mm - willbhere4u - 12-01-2010
It has a bigger bore!
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-01-2010
(12-01-2010, 03:49 PM)willbhere4u It has a bigger bore!
I think this guy is having us on!
Said in first post that the size was the diameter, Even posted a pic of the thing....
RE: 7 mm - ForcedInduction - 12-01-2010
Stroke can't change without regrinding the cam or increasing injection duration.
These pumps use a constant start, variable end delivery method; The more fuel you inject the longer the effective stroke is. Thats why the 5.5mm pumps cause high EGTs when turned up far beyond stock.
Larger bore plungers bring the injection duration back into a safe time window. Or in the case of the non-turbo projects, inject the same amount of fuel sooner so the fuel has more time to burn.
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 12-01-2010
10mm element can be used m but with p type you can use only 8mm,
but it s ok because those modern engin gan give a lot more power than those stone age iron engines with small turbos and 10mm elements
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-02-2010
ОК... What to make 7мм it would be necessary to lift plunger? Then the chamber plunger will increase.... Or it absolutely other detail? I wish to make it itself, but I to understand that it can not is necessary to make with old ..... Means it is necessary to chisel a plunger to 0.307ccm and to replace the bucket on 7mm?
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-02-2010
From what I gather, you want to 'make' these yourself...?
This is NOT Possible.....
Elements are Mega Precision Parts, with surface finish better than 0.1uM You Cant make them in your average well equipped Machine-shop, let alone your garden-shed!
You must Buy the required Size, Then they must be fitted--Which you also Cannot do unless you have PROPER facilities to do so.--Like a Diesel-Injection Test-Bench and or full injection shop....
So, You BUY the parts, and get Injection-place to fit and set them up in your pump....
Waste of your time to even try to make these yourself.....
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-02-2010
ok....BOSCH service can do ? Also what such ALDA? How it is deciphered on letters?
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-02-2010
(12-02-2010, 03:27 PM)AMG ok....BOSCH service can do ? Also what such ALDA? How it is deciphered on letters?
Yes, Bosch agents can fit.
But They wont want to!( No Test-Plans for what you want, they cant set it--too much trouble for average place) There are guys that will do this though, not a real problem, send your pump to Germany, there is a guy who can do the whole job, supply and fit.
ALDA is device for increasing fuel delivery with rising turbo boost-pressure. Not all pumps have this, Only pumps from Turbo engines.
What Car and Engine do you have...?
What Pump have you got on it...?
What modifications have you done already....?
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 12-03-2010
Just give diesel pump specialist do the job.
You can find those a lot in Europe. Best can find in Finland
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-04-2010
(12-02-2010, 06:46 PM)Alastair E(12-02-2010, 03:27 PM)AMG ok....BOSCH service can do ? Also what such ALDA? How it is deciphered on letters?
Yes, Bosch agents can fit.
But They wont want to!( No Test-Plans for what you want, they cant set it--too much trouble for average place) There are guys that will do this though, not a real problem, send your pump to Germany, there is a guy who can do the whole job, supply and fit.
ALDA is device for increasing fuel delivery with rising turbo boost-pressure. Not all pumps have this, Only pumps from Turbo engines.
What Car and Engine do you have...?
What Pump have you got on it...?
What modifications have you done already....?
W201 with motor OM603 without turbo
The pump original
All in the original.
(12-03-2010, 01:37 PM)jeemu Just give diesel pump specialist do the job.
You can find those a lot in Europe. Best can find in Finland
How much it cost? i mean the job and parts together
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 12-04-2010
Hi. If there in Viro dont have pump shop who install bigger elements you should ask at Mynä-Diesel in Finland what it would cost and when they can do it.
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-05-2010
(12-04-2010, 05:25 PM)jeemu Hi. If there in Viro dont have pump shop who install bigger elements you should ask at Mynä-Diesel in Finland what it would cost and when they can do it.
From what I gather, Myna charge summit around 1200 euro to do the 7mm conversion.
RE: 7 mm - George3soccer - 12-05-2010
Hey AMG, what transmission do you have with the 603 engine. I have a few questions for you and how you did that swap. I too have a 603 Turbo in my w201, and would like to get some information from you also??
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-06-2010
George3soccer
usual automat with short shaft from 2.5 diesel w124, but it will be better to put in transmission (with short shaft) from 3.0 diesel, but then you need to shorten the cardan.
there is a link, about how was constructed my car, with photoreport. (sorry, there is everything on russian language) there is a link, about how was constructed my car, with photoreport. (sorry, there is everything on russian language)
RE: 7 mm - George3soccer - 12-06-2010
Very nice swap, what kind of engine mounts are you using.
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-06-2010
(12-04-2010, 06:15 AM)AMG W201 with motor OM603 without turbo
The pump original
All in the original.
[quote='jeemu' pid='21446' dateline='1291401462']
Just give diesel pump specialist do the job.
You can find those a lot in Europe. Best can find in Finland
Hmmm...
This 603 was made Without Turbo....Its a N/A 603.912 engine...??
the Non Turbo 603 isnt Strong enough to fit a Turbo to.
Fitting 7mm elements is not worth the money for your engine, you cannot fit turbo and tune the 603.912 it will break....
Dont waste money making pump for this engine--Get either OM.603.952 or better still, OM.606.962 from W210 300TD
OM.606 will fit your mounts.
Proper 603 Turbo Engine is OM.603.952 and has Stronger Pistons, Connecting Rods, larger Oil Pump and Oil Cooling of Pistons, and some other differences.
You CAN turn Up Your Pump, which will make some more power reasonably safely, BUT Take Care, Small Adjustments, and watch for Smoke...
(Smoke is Bad for Engine = High Exhaust Gas Temp and can damage Pistons!)
Look at Adjusting 'M' type Injection Pump at top of the 'Engine' section here....
Nice work on your w201 modification!
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-07-2010
(12-06-2010, 11:54 AM)George3soccer Very nice swap, what kind of engine mounts are you using.
original mounts (from 603)
(12-06-2010, 01:48 PM)Alastair E Its a N/A 603.912 engine...??
Yes
RE: 7 mm - Alastair E - 12-07-2010
(12-07-2010, 08:02 AM)AMG(12-06-2010, 01:48 PM)Alastair E Its a N/A 603.912 engine...??
Yes
Then Dont Waste Your Money on a 7mm Pump modification for larger elements for This Engine....
Its NOT Worth It!
You Need Better (Turbo) Engine to make 7mm elements Work Properly....
IF you fit 7mm to your Non Turbo engine, All you'll make is--Lots Of SMOKE! and not much power
RE: 7 mm - AMG - 12-08-2010
(12-07-2010, 12:05 PM)Alastair E(12-07-2010, 08:02 AM)AMG(12-06-2010, 01:48 PM)Alastair E Its a N/A 603.912 engine...??
Yes
Then Dont Waste Your Money on a 7mm Pump modification for larger elements for This Engine....
Its NOT Worth It!
You Need Better (Turbo) Engine to make 7mm elements Work Properly....
IF you fit 7mm to your Non Turbo engine, All you'll make is--Lots Of SMOKE! and not much power
but i wanted tu put in the car and turbo and 7mm elements.
RE: 7 mm - jeemu - 12-08-2010
(12-08-2010, 03:25 PM)AMGIt can hold up 300hp power depends how you use it.(12-07-2010, 12:05 PM)Alastair E(12-07-2010, 08:02 AM)AMG(12-06-2010, 01:48 PM)Alastair E Its a N/A 603.912 engine...??
Yes
Then Dont Waste Your Money on a 7mm Pump modification for larger elements for This Engine....
Its NOT Worth It!
You Need Better (Turbo) Engine to make 7mm elements Work Properly....
IF you fit 7mm to your Non Turbo engine, All you'll make is--Lots Of SMOKE! and not much power
but i wanted tu put in the car and turbo and 7mm elements.
Some people can broke that at 500m and some people drive 30tkm.
But best choise is original tbo engine. OM602/3 tbo can handle much power with original internals. Next step is to change Om 605/6 rods in it
so 603 can handle over 600hp power.