+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Drivetrain (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: The 5speed thread. (/showthread.php?tid=151)
Pages:
1
2
The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 03-20-2008
Well I am on the hunt for a 5 speed gasser, cast iron style. I am hopeful the internals will swap over. However I found an interesting AMG picture:
Notice the lack of side arms?
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 03-20-2008
I thought the arms were on the other side.
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 03-21-2008
It does not have to be a g@sser, the euro 240D/TD and 300D had the 5-speed as an option.
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 03-21-2008
ForcedInduction It does not have to be a g@sser, the euro 240D/TD and 300D had the 5-speed as an option.Ya, but finding one for a diesel is pretty difficult and pricey.
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 03-22-2008
winmutt Ya, but finding one for a diesel is pretty difficult and pricey.
They are the same.
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 03-22-2008
The internals are the same? I just got a parts diagram of the 5 speed from a 280e.
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 03-23-2008
Yes, they should have the same part number.
Re: The 5speed thread. - re-evaluating - 04-18-2008
I am looking at a 190E 5spd car and wondering if I can bolt up a 603 or 602 motor to this trans. I know I will need a flywheel but will the rest bolt in?
Thanks Dave
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 04-18-2008
re-evaluating I am looking at a 190E 5spd car and wondering if I can bolt up a 603 or 602 motor to this trans. I know I will need a flywheel but will the rest bolt in?
Thanks Dave
Yes, it should.
Re: The 5speed thread. - HoleshotHolset - 04-21-2008
You can bolt in an OM603 in a little 190E?! :twisted:
I didn't think the nose was long enough for an I6...
The 190E's appeal to me since it's a smaller/lighter car than a W124...
I just hope the rest of the 190E is just as nearly bulletproof as a W124 - which have a good reputation as being built very well.
Beers,
Matt
Re: The 5speed thread. - re-evaluating - 04-21-2008
Well they come stock with a 2.6 I6 Gasser not sure of the difference in dimensions but it is in there.
HoleshotHolset You can bolt in an OM603 in a little 190E?! :twisted:
I didn't think the nose was long enough for an I6...
The 190E's appeal to me since it's a smaller/lighter car than a W124...
I just hope the rest of the 190E is just as nearly bulletproof as a W124 - which have a good reputation as being built very well.
Beers,
Matt
Re: The 5speed thread. - HoleshotHolset - 04-21-2008
Wow - I didn't realize that. Duly noted!
I thought most of the 190E's had I4 gassers.
Beers,
Matt - definitely still learning when it comes to Mercedes Benz cars...
Re: The 5speed thread. - re-evaluating - 04-21-2008
ME TOO
HoleshotHolset Wow - I didn't realize that. Duly noted!
I thought most of the 190E's had I4 gassers.
Beers,
Matt - definitely still learning when it comes to Mercedes Benz cars...
Re: The 5speed thread. - HughF_UK - 04-25-2008
I'm a w201/190E owner... Just embarking on a superturbo project for it, OM606 with OM603 pump, VNT and 5 speed dogleg getrag box from a 190 cosworth...
Have you seen the <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.teamrwd.com/dieselboost">http://www.teamrwd.com/dieselboost</a><!-- w --> site?
Hugh, UK
Re: The 5speed thread. - HoleshotHolset - 05-01-2008
HughF_UK Have you seen the <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.teamrwd.com/dieselboost">http://www.teamrwd.com/dieselboost</a><!-- m --> site?
Yup - the infamous 'dieselboost' video of the black/red cars featured on that site is what got me going on the OM606 craze in the first place. If only my Finnish skills were better - I could more easily interact with the gentlemen who own those cars.
Beers,
Matt
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 05-18-2008
It doesn't get much better than this. 85*F, sunny, a W123 Getrag 5-speed, driveshaft, shifter and shift rods sitting in the trunk of a junkyard 280E already removed! No crawling, no mess, no pain.
The best deal of all. It cost me $92.24 total!
I even happened to catch a 50% off everything sale! Thats, $82.48 off of an already dirt cheap price AND I can still get $35 back in core returns. Now, there is always a down side to everything. Unfortunately its in the transmission... its stuck in 4th gear.
No worries though, even if I get a complete rebuild, it will still be much cheaper and a more complete set than importing the parts overseas. Damn I'm glad I went to the parts yard instead of sleeping!
A question for Randy since he already has a 5-speed in his 300TD: What is the exact front driveshaft length needed for it to work and which one did you use? I think the 280E DS will be close but I'm not 100% on that.
VIN WDB12303310096238
Model 280 E
Chassis 12303310096238
Engine 110988 10 000210
Transmission 717400 00 000039
Order 0 1 292 00166
Approx. year not defined
Lights BOSCH
Cab 07899
Dealer factory sales (292)
Interior Unknown code (932)
Paint
930 silver blue metallic (? 01.01.1979 ?? 31.12.1984, ? 1994)
Options
410 electric sliding roof (? 01.03.1965 ?? 29.02.1988)
428 manual five-speed transmission (? 01.01.1970)
430 headrests in the rear (? 01.01.1977)
safety belts, front and rear (? 01.01.1964 ?? 31.05.1973)
466 central locking system (? 01.04.1970 ?? 31.10.1993)
461 + 464 (? 01.10.1966 ?? 31.12.1966)
462 + 463 (? 01.07.1968 ?? 31.08.1969)
470 anti-lock braking system (abs) (? 01.06.1978 ?? 31.10.1993)
special export version 3 (? 01.12.1966 ?? 28.02.1968)
fan clutch (? 01.04.1970 ?? 30.11.1976)
502 outside rear view mirror, on the right (? 01.01.1963 ?? 31.03.1983)
510 Becker radio Mexico (Olympia, with stereo cassette) (? 01.10.1969 ?? 30.09.1973)
Becker radio Mexico cassette full stereo, electronic, Kurier LW/MW/SW/USW (? 01.09.1979 ?? 30.11.1990)
Becker radio Monte Carlo (? 01.02.1964 ?? 30.06.1969)
Becker radio Monza cassette stereo LW/MW/USW (? 01.11.1974 ?? 31.01.1979)
radio MB Exquisit with traffic news decoder (VK), with RDS (Becker) (? 01.07.1992)
531 automatic antenna (? 01.01.1963)
570 folding armrest front w202/210 stowage box front with armrest (? 01.04.1970)
front folding armrest w202 - housing at front with armrest
586 Behr air conditioner, and electric window lifters (front and rear doors) (? 01.04.1970)
590 heat-insulating glass, all-around, heated rear window pane (laminated glass), Germany
heat-insulating glass, windshield (? 01.01.1967 ?? 31.01.1971)
green heat-insulating glass all round, heated rear window, laminated safety glass - Germany (? 01.01.1972)
600 headlamp wiper/washer (? 01.08.1971)
trim strips on hardtop (? 01.04.1963 ?? 31.07.1971)
640 aluminium disc wheels with radial-ply tires (? 01.10.1969 ?? 31.12.1989)
tires with tube (? 01.01.1963 ?? 31.08.1965)
15-hole light alloy rims (? 01.01.1990)
682 fire extinguisher (? 01.04.1970)
850 installation of taximeter (Kienzle Argomatic) (? 01.01.1968 ?? 31.12.1976)
870 electric seat heater for left front seat (? 01.01.1974 ?? 31.07.1984)
fax system (in rear armrest) (? 01.04.1991 ?? 03.07.1997)
871 electric seat heater for right front seat (? 01.10.1972 ?? 31.07.1984)
fax system in console between rear single seats (? 01.11.1991 ?? 03.07.1997)
Oh, I have a pair of Euro headlamp wipers for sale, a triangle clip and two headlight level switches. I'll make a thread in the parts section for them.
[attachment=3]<!-- ia3 -->LMN 5-speed knob.jpg<!-- ia3 -->[/attachment]
[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->LMN 5-speed tranny dirty.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]
[attachment=2]<!-- ia2 -->LMN 5-speed driveshaft.jpg<!-- ia2 -->[/attachment]
[attachment=1]<!-- ia1 -->LMN 5-speed receipt.jpg<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment]
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 05-19-2008
Dude. Sweet. Let us know what the top end is.
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-19-2008
Are you F***ing kidding me!? :o
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-21-2008
I am really looking to swap a 5 spd into my W124 diesel. I talked to a guy that said there is a company in australia that made an adapter for a T5. I have looked to no avail, but found a company in south africa that might have something promising. I am looking to build a superdiesel out of this, and want to swap a manual in. I am not really interested in a 240D 4 speed, and the euro 5 speed diesel trannys are hard to come by. If anyone could help me out with this, that would be appreciated.
link to south african site: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.giloeng.com/">http://www.giloeng.com/</a><!-- m -->
BTW: This is my first post, but if things go well, I should be around here a lot.
Re: The 5speed thread. - HoleshotHolset - 05-22-2008
llegos I am really looking to swap a 5 spd into my W124 diesel. I talked to a guy that said there is a company in australia that made an adapter for a T5.
Welcome to the site!
T5's aren't known for being the most stout 5-speeds out there...OEM ratings are only around 300ft-lbs. They can be beefed up to handle around 500ft-lbs...but a superturbo Merc would be beyond that with ease.
Which bolt patterns do they offer?
I didn't see anything on their (slow loading) site for a Mercedes bellhousing bolt pattern...
The folks in Finland/Sweden have been putting GM TH-350's and TH-400's behind Volvo engines for a while...I wonder who did their bellhousing adapters for them?
Beers,
Matt
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-22-2008
well, long story short, i would really like a manual in the car if I am going to build a superdiesel out of it. I am do not know as much as I want about these cars, and I am still learning. The general plan so far would be to send the injection pump to mynä diesel and get an hx 35 turbo on the car, beyond that I dont know what else to do.
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-22-2008
llegos I am really looking to swap a 5 spd into my W124 diesel. I talked to a guy that said there is a company in australia that made an adapter for a T5. I have looked to no avail, but found a company in south africa that might have something promising. I am looking to build a superdiesel out of this, and want to swap a manual in. I am not really interested in a 240D 4 speed, and the euro 5 speed diesel trannys are hard to come by. If anyone could help me out with this, that would be appreciated.
link to south african site: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.giloeng.com/">http://www.giloeng.com/</a><!-- m -->
BTW: This is my first post, but if things go well, I should be around here a lot.
The 5 speed manuals that will bolt up to your OM603 are much easier to find than the ones that bolt up to the 617.
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-22-2008
can you explain the numbers to me(603, 617, etc). I really never did too much research in this car, so help would be appreciated. Thanks
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 05-23-2008
617 is the all Iron inline-5 used from 1976-1985 (300D/CD/TD/SD) with intake and exhaust manifolds on the same side.
60x is an iron block and alum. head with intake and exhast of opposite sides of the head.
OM601 is I-4 2.2L non turbo from 84-85 (190D 2.2)
OM602 is I-5 2.5L nonturbo from 85-86 and 88-89 (190D 2.5), turbo 87 (190D 2.5T) and 91-93 (300D 2.5)
OM603 is I-6 3.0L turbo from 86-87 (300D/TD/SDL)
OM603.7 is I-6 3.5L turbo from 90-95 (300/350)
OM606 is an iron block and alum. head with intake and exhast of opposite sides of the head and 24valves.
95-97 nonturbo, 98-99 turbo (E300)
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-23-2008
thanks a lot for the info, dude. All I need now is to find a tranny that will work in this thing. A T-56 would definitely be awesome.
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-24-2008
Keep an eye out for 5 speed 190Ds (and 190Es I think). What is the transmission number for this box, and what were the most powerful engine they were put behind?
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 05-24-2008
Off I go to the yard, everyone please say a prayer or sacrifice a goat or virgin or whatever you do.
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-24-2008
How about a virigin goat? I'm off to the yards too.
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 05-24-2008
NO 5spds today
I did however find 2 wagons with parts for my wifes car and a TD front sway bar for mine.
Re: The 5speed thread. - TheDon - 05-24-2008
last I checked James wants $500 plus shipping for his 5 speed we took out of the 190D
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-24-2008
so will a 5 speed from a 190D work(and hold up) to this engine?
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-24-2008
llegos so will a 5 speed from a 190D work(and hold up) to this engine?
yes, it should be fine.
No 5 speeds, or even diesels for me. I did find a saab intercooler, a 3rd brakelight and a GM airbox though.
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 05-25-2008
i know this is a lot of questioning, but, how much power will it hold? I assume that I would also use the clutch pedal assembly from the 190D as well? Does anyone make a higher performance clutch that fits? Thanks again for your patience
-Steve
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 05-25-2008
They make a "stage 2" clutch for the 240D, so I assume they make one for the 190s too. I believe the factory put this transmission behind 190 HP 200 Ft* LB 6 cyl Gassers and maybe some V8s as well.
UPDATE on my 5-speed - ForcedInduction - 06-06-2008
I got with Mike from Stu Ritter's shop and its not good news. It looks like the tranny has been in/through water for some time. Most of the gears are heat blued, the bearings have rust and the #4 fork is bent but the case is fine.
Total estimate to rebuild: $2000 after parts, labor and taxes!
I know its a rare box but I can still spend half that importing one directly from Germany/UK/France.
On the plus side, winmutt is going to take it so it won't be going to waste.
I also bought a brand new 1981 Mercedes Spec Manual for $50. It has Body numbers, drivetrain numbers, body weights, torque specs, dimensions, alignment specs and most everything under the sun in a 3x5 book. Its pretty much everything in the euro/us W116, W123, R107 and W126 engine and body manuals except the R&R steps. I'm amazed nobody has ever talked about these extremely handy little books, there is one for every year and covers every model made in that year.
Re: UPDATE on my 5-speed - winmutt - 06-06-2008
ForcedInduction I also bought a brand new 1981 Mercedes Spec Manual for $50. It has Body numbers, drivetrain numbers, body weights, torque specs, dimensions, alignment specs and most everything under the sun in a 3x5 book. Its pretty much everything in the euro/us W116, W123, R107 and W126 engine and body manuals except the R&R steps. I'm amazed nobody has ever talked about these extremely handy little books, there is one for every year and covers every model made in that year.pics?
Re: UPDATE on my 5-speed - ForcedInduction - 06-07-2008
winmutt pics?He has several more, especially the 81 year. Call Mark at (303) 698-2431 and see if he is willing to sell more.
[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->Technical data manual.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]
IMHO, this is the book every MB junkie should have. Each book edition covers every passenger car model MB sold the previous two years (1979-1980 for the 1981 book).
Re: The 5speed thread. - bgkast - 06-07-2008
Too bad about the 5 spd.
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 06-08-2008
does it matter which 190d i get the tranny from? 2.2l or 2.5l?
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 06-08-2008
They are both the same transmission model.
Re: The 5speed thread. - llegos - 06-10-2008
thank you very much. the hunt begins :twisted:
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 06-11-2008
FI is your tranny newer or older? I just noticed that the bellhousing on my 4spds is removable!
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 06-11-2008
winmutt FI is your tranny newer or older? I just noticed that the bellhousing on my 4spds is removable!
Its an older Getrag, one of the first MB used. The bell is cast as part of the body.
Re: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 06-13-2008
Pics?
Re: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 06-13-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=222621&highlight=getrag+280e">http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/s ... etrag+280e</a><!-- m -->
RE: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 01-15-2009
The MBZ gods have opened up the heavens and the angels sing on high.
More to come at 11.
RE: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 01-15-2009
I've pretty much given up on a 5-speed and sold all my accessories (shifter, driveshaft, etc) since I got a killer deal freshly rebuilt 4-speed. I'll probably swap in a 3.07 and be happy with that.
RE: The 5speed thread. - winmutt - 01-15-2009
9:34. Predictable but worth the drive. When the man said *TWO* 5 speeds and one was busted and both were cheap, I should have known better, 4+R != 5!!!!
RE: The 5speed thread. - kamel - 01-16-2009
I can't believe I passed up a 190e 5 speed last time I was at the yard. I didn't know it could be used on diesels. D'oh!
RE: The 5speed thread. - ForcedInduction - 01-16-2009
(01-16-2009, 02:16 AM)kamel I can't believe I passed up a 190e 5 speed last time I was at the yard. I didn't know it could be used on diesels. D'oh!
Only on the 1986+ models.
That sucks about the 4+R, too many people are trying to pull that trick now. Either its ignorance or the word on 5-speed rarity has spread that far and they are trying to take advantage of it.