PROBLEM SOLVED! Lesjofors p/n 42 568 69 + smallest spring pads + W123 300D Bilstien HDs

SLS has got to go. I just rebuilt the valve and both the shocks blew, one right after the other. Tried the shocks from the parts car, one looks bad (oily boot), and the other was nice and dry... too dry. The fitting was rusted in so bad that no amount of PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, hammering, etc could stave off the impending doom. You guessed it. Damn thing snapped off. 2 more hours with an easy out, to no avail. Doesn't matter anyway because I am left 1 shock short.

So, I will not be spending $1000, or even $500 to repair a money shredder. What's the preferred method of replacing the SLS with just good old fashioned shocks and springs?

(06-26-2009 04:58 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  What's the preferred method of replacing the SLS with just good old fashioned shocks and springs?

Selling it for a 300D.

I have never seen anybody happy after removing the SLS.

(06-26-2009 05:15 PM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  Selling it for a 300D.

I have never seen anybody happy after removing the SLS.

Found a thread on mshop from 2005 where a guy replaced them with custom-made thicker springs. Awaiting reply. He seemed pretty happy, and I will be ecstatic to be rid of the headache. I doubt it would work well with off-the-shelf parts because the wagon is some 200lbs heavier in the rear.

Closer to 400lbs since the fuel tank sits behind the rear axles instead of above as it does in the sedans.

Mercedessource has a kit... Anyone heard of it?

(06-27-2009 07:01 AM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  Mercedessource has a kit... Anyone heard of it?

Yes, and I know of their shady business deals and their very high prices.

(06-27-2009 07:03 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  Yes, and I know of their shady business deals and their very high prices.

The price doesn't seem bad at all. $400 for 2 springs, 2 shocks, and 2 swaybar endlinks. There is a local spring shop I plan on talking to next week about making some custom springs. I'll just bring them the springs from the 300D parts car and see if they can be duplicated, only built for ~500lbs more weight. Not sure what this will run me yet.

(06-27-2009 11:55 AM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  I'll just bring them the springs from the 300D parts car and see if they can be duplicated, only built for ~500lbs more weight. Not sure what this will run me yet.

let me know how that works... I have the vogtlands in my 300d right now, but even with most of my stuff outta the trunk it still is sitting a bit low with my heavy ass toolbox back there... I think i need heavier duty springs...

(06-27-2009 01:46 PM)SurfRodder Wrote:  let me know how that works... I have the vogtlands in my 300d right now, but even with most of my stuff outta the trunk it still is sitting a bit low with my heavy ass toolbox back there... I think i need heavier duty springs...

I just cut the front.

Oddly enough I was just thinking about ADDING SLS to my 300D. I would love to see a 4way SLS conversion on a W123.

don't put ideas in my head man!

Taxis had it and the sedan has all the same mounting points as the TD for SLS.

(06-27-2009 08:56 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Oddly enough I was just thinking about ADDING SLS to my 300D. I would love to see a 4way SLS conversion on a W123.

What for? Does it actually handle that much better?

EDIT: also, what sort of level control device goes on the front? I could see a point to it if there was one valve per wheel... that is, if the system reacts quickly enough to be of use while cornering.

(06-28-2009 08:04 AM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  

(06-27-2009 08:56 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Oddly enough I was just thinking about ADDING SLS to my 300D. I would love to see a 4way SLS conversion on a W123.

What for? Does it actually handle that much better?

EDIT: also, what sort of level control device goes on the front? I could see a point to it if there was one valve per wheel... that is, if the system reacts quickly enough to be of use while cornering.

I can only assume the fact that the four corner SLS was an uber rare option on the W126 and involved not springs at all to mean that it does indeed handle that much better. Remember each corner has its own nitrogen chamber ball.

(06-28-2009 08:04 PM)winmutt Wrote:  I can only assume the fact that the four corner SLS was an uber rare option on the W126 and involved not springs at all to mean that it does indeed handle that much better. Remember each corner has its own nitrogen chamber ball.

That sounds like a ******* nightmare, as if 2 shocks, 2 accumulators, 3 soft hydraulic hoses, and one valve aren't enough.... Imagine 4 shocks, @ least 5 soft hoses, at least 3 valves (independent front leveling??)... No thank you sir, but I'll sell you my parts when I'm done . Just negociating with mercedessource right now on the price. Apparently the springs they use are off a different model, different year mercedes.. any ideas?

Okay. So I've learnt my lesson about mercedessource.

Email 1:

Quote:Hello, I may be interested in your SLS replacement kit. Both my SLS shocks
blew and I am thinking about deleting the entire system. Are the springs
custom made or are they standard equipment on another Mercedes vehicle?
Also, I will not require the sway bar end links because I just installed a
set 4 days ago. What will the kit cost without those? Could you give me an
idea what shipping would be to XXXXXXXXXXXXX? Thank You.

Response 1:

Quote:HI GREASY_BEAST -

The springs are made by Lesjofors and they are a Mercedes factory spring from another year and model -

I could deduct $ 15.00 for the rear sway bar links from the kit

Shipping to Vermont would be $ 45.00

Email me back and let me know if you would like to proceed with an order!

Cheers,

sales@mercedessource.com

Email 2:

Quote:You sell the same swaybar endlinks on your website for $19.95. Why is it that you can only deduct $15 if you don't include them? Also, what brand and type of shocks are included in the kit? Could you provide me with the part number for the springs as well? Which carrier do you ship with? I'm sorry to be a pain, and I really do want to purchase this kit from you, but it rubs me the wrong way to be gouged, even if it is a matter of only $5. I hope when you provide me with the information I have requested I will not see more evidence of this.

A day passes.... no response.

Email 3:

Quote:Hi,

I am interested in doing business with you. If you provide me with the part numbers I've requested, and I can ensure that your prices are competitive with other retailers, then I promise to buy your product. Please let me know if you are interested in selling me this kit. I am interested in buying it if you can come through on your end.

Response 3:

Quote:Thanks for your inquiry -

I am sorry but we are no longer offering this kit for sale

sales@mercedessource.com

Email 4:

Quote:Hello XXXXX,

If you are no longer offering the kit for sale then why did you offer to sell it to me?

Response 4:

Quote:We recently made a decision this week to focus our attentions on repairing the existing system so we decided to no longer offer the conversion kit - We are going to be releasing a full length diagnostic manual on the SLS and many repair kits for things such as the leveling valve and the hydraulic pump

SO. I want to make this happen. I will be searching through lists of springs just as soon as I get them, and I'll be sure to post part numbers here when I find them. I'll be using Bilstein HDs from a W123 Sedan. And I won't be paying any $400 either.

Id like to know what other model it comes from. You can just straight order the thickest stock springs from classic parts, the part number is in the FSM

(07-01-2009 09:31 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Id like to know what other model it comes from. You can just straight order the thickest stock springs from classic parts, the part number is in the FSM

I'd be willing to bet a rear spring from a W140 is the one to use. I'll give the FSM a look and call classic parts to see whats up.

Tried getting ahold of classic parts but no answer. However, I have done some digging on the Lesjofors Automotive website.

Lesjofors Rear Spring Part numbers:

Normal 300TD: 42 568 05
Heavy Duty 300TD: 42 568 30

Normal 300D: 42 568 02
Heavy Duty 300D: 42 568 15

Normal W140 w/o SLS: 42 568 09
Heavy Duty W140 w/o SLS: 42 568 69
From Lesjofors AB:
356mm tall
18mm wire diameter
134mm overall diameter (BOLT-UP!!!)
11mm/1000N

From Observation:

300D Rear Spring Overall Outer Diameter: ~130mm


From the W123 Shop Manual:

Standard 300TD (123.193) Rear Springs:

115 324 38 04
361mm tall
15.1mm dia wire
18.7mm/1000N

Standard 300D (123.133) Rear Springs:

123 324 36 04
371mm tall
16mm dia wire
19.1mm/1000N

The springs with the highest spring rates were the heavy duty rear 300D springs:

115 324 29 04
344mm tall
17.8mm dia wire
12.35mm/1000N

123 324 38 04
339mm tall
17.8mm dia wire
12.59mm/1000N

Now I need to put it all together. I still don't have the necessary dimensions for the W140 springs. Spring rate? Height? Wire diameter? Overall Diameter?

I do know that the W140 springs are the same style (straight coil) as the W123 Springs, but the other data is important to tell if they will actually fit. Does anyone have a W140 Shop Manual?

Just got a reply to my W140 spring info request from Classic Parts in Irvine, CA:

Quote:Hello,


We do not advise nor recommend alteration / removal of the self leveling suspension, nor any other component of your Mercedes-Benz."


Regards,


Mercedes-Benz USA
Classic Center
Classic Parts Support

I guess I made a big mistake in telling them what I plan to do.. They must feel pretty strongly about this moral position if they are unwilling to sell me parts.. who ever heard of a business that didn't want to sell its product?

I removed my SLS rear suspension on my TD, I installed used sedan springs with the thickest upper mount (mercedes makes 3 different thicknesses) and then installed some NAPA shocks.

I also installed some rubber coil spring spacers in between the coils to give it an extra inch of ride height.

The springs were free from my parts car, the shocks were only $50 each, the mounts were around $20 and the spacers were
$20

The car handles awesome and I dont have to worry about the SLS leaking and whatnot

Also you have to make a block off plate for the suspension pump, some bulk steel and universal paper gasket material works good for that

(07-06-2009 01:16 PM)MB TECH Wrote:  universal paper gasket material

Aka "cereal box" lol. I have a 300D sedan sitting on blocks, I might just swap the shocks and springs, do the rubber coil spacers, 19mm top shim and call it done. However, I would really like to build a suspension setup that works right... I.E. 2 shocks, 2 springs, and 2 spacers, and that's it. All I need are some specifications for two Lesjofors part numbers. Apparently that information is hard to come by. There is always the option of going with the W123 Heavy Duty springs (special order, never sold in U.S.) This will help, but its not a solution.

The W140 is ~4200lbs empty. That makes me wonder if the rear springs might be what the doctor ordered for the 300TD.

That could be, but if I remember correctly the 140 springs are taller than the 123 springs (at least the ones I have replaced) and if you were to mash them under a 123 they might become coil bound. I will try to do some research and see if I can come up with some dimensions for those springs.

(07-06-2009 09:38 PM)MB TECH Wrote:  That could be, but if I remember correctly the 140 springs are taller than the 123 springs (at least the ones I have replaced) and if you were to mash them under a 123 they might become coil bound. I will try to do some research and see if I can come up with some dimensions for those springs.

Went to a local yard and looked at some W140 springs today. It looks like they are smaller than any W123 springs. About the right height, but only about 13mm wire diameter. That was on an SLS car, though, so there's still hope the non-sls springs are beefier... but doubtful. Over on mshop someone said they used W124 500E springs to replace the SLS in a W124 wagon. Can you get ballpark dimensions on W124 500E springs? Maybe they will fit a W123.

EDIT: W124 500E chassis number is 124.036

Okay, I dug through the W126 shop manual and found another promising part number.

116 324 09 04
17.2mm wire dia
372.5mm tall
15.2mm/1000N

This spring, by my rudimentary calculations, gets the back of the wagon (that is, sedan + 500lbs) within 1 or 2mm of the ride height of a sedan.

Do W126 springs fit on W123 perches?

Anyone got a W126 and feel like putting a tape on the rear spring to tell me what the overall outer diameter of the coil is?

Also, has anyone put their wagon on a scale before? It would be good to know exactly what the rear axle weight is unloaded. I would do mine but I can't drive it at the moment...

---

Just received word from Lesjofors AB. Information post #18 above updated in bold

FOLKS WE HAVE A WINNER!

Lesjofors part number 42 568 69 should fit to the W123 300TD perches, has a higher spring rate than any W123 or W126 spring, and puts the rear within 2mm of stock ride height (assuming the rear axle of the wagon supports 500lbs more than the rear axle of a 240D).

Now the problem is to get these springs. They are a heavy-duty lowering spring made by Lesjofors for an 8/1991-12/1995 W140 S600. Not something your friendly local MBZ dealer can get you. And there is no such thing as Lesjofors USA anymore, their phone has been disconnected.

Greasy, your research on this topic is greatly appreciated! While I hope I never have to tear out my SLS, it'll be great to know there is an alternative. I'm sure many will benefit from your time and effort!

I wonder what happened with the mercedes source kit? I saw that once and I was curious about that too.

you probably already have this info, but here is the contact info for the UK branch of Lesjöfors:

http://automotive.lesjoforsab.com/automo...act&s=info

they may be able to point you in the right direction, and at least theyll speak the proper tongue.

(07-07-2009 05:02 PM)SurfRodder Wrote:  you probably already have this info, but here is the contact info for the UK branch of Lesjöfors:

http://automotive.lesjoforsab.com/automo...act&s=info

they may be able to point you in the right direction, and at least theyll speak the proper tongue.

I've contacted a few of their branches in various countries and so far there has been no language barrier. I'll <hopefully> be getting an email tomorrow telling me where I can order them from.

What about using rubber air-bag suspension springs. Like those that the 'lowered' crowd uses. There are a ton of companies offering all kinds of different levels of kits with varying degrees of complexity regarding auto-adjustability. Maybe one can have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. Forced has already shown us the on-board air system, these companies have slick control units that I would assume wouldn't be too hard to mimic the SLS's functions. And I think it could be done affordably. But the biggest benefit to using these is that you wouldn't loose the wieght capacity for the wagon as these units are capable of high loads.

Up here the local 'Canadian Tire' offers an add-on air bag system that you install between your frame and axle and add/remove air to adjust, and I think the base kit is rated for min 1000lbs, for around $150- $200 bucks.

Just an idea...

---

Here's something. Looks like they offer kits for the 1977 - 1985 300...

http://www.airbagit.com/SearchResults.asp?mfg=MERCEDES

---

Hmmm...

Now that I've looked at it a bit. For the 1200 to 1500 all in, I wouldn't mind putting this in my W126's. One could have as hard a ride as you wanted. Full adjustability. Plus, you could jack around while cruising the blvd.

I'm looking at importing springs for like $120 each all told, and using free shocks from a parts car. Even if I had to buy new shocks at $75 each, it would still be cheaper than replacing one SLS shock. The S600 springs have been located and are being packed right now.

As for the air bags... $1500 would solve my SLS problems and then some... It would make more sense to buy new shocks for $1000 and know its good for another 25 years than to spend $1500 on a crap shoot.. Or better yet, spend $240-$390 to fix it once and for all.

where'd you finally end up sourcing the springs?

I don't think that the air-bag system would be that much of a crap-shoot really, they have been proven for at least the last twenty years in the aftermarket, and the prices reflect that. Twenty years ago, systems like this were cost prohibitive, ie into the thousands. The ride is better than steel springs too, at least in the trucks and cars that I have riden in.

The springs are ordered and on the way, thanks to GSF Car Parts in the UK. It looks like it will be about $230-$250 all told, including shipping. If a decent air system for the rear of the wagon could be had for less than that I'd consider it, but the added complexity and maintenance is less than ideal. Problem isn't solved until the springs are bolted up so I'll hold off on claiming victory for now.

you must let me know how it works out, I would like to see what the alternatives are to my kobble job of a rear suspension

(07-10-2009 02:14 PM)MB TECH Wrote:  you must let me know how it works out, I would like to see what the alternatives are to my kobble job of a rear suspension

Will do.

Just throwing this in the mix after stumbling on it..

http://www.strutmasters.com/http://www.s...s-s/30.htm

(07-14-2009 07:04 AM)85-300Dt Wrote:  Just throwing this in the mix after stumbling on it..

http://www.strutmasters.com/http://www.s...s-s/30.htm

That's interesting... all solutions are more expensive than just fixing the SLS and I'm not sure which, if any bolt to a W123. However, they do have the cheapest SLS shocks I have seen anywhere at $275ea.

(07-14-2009 06:33 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  I'm not sure which, if any bolt to a W123.

Probly this one (x2) for 300TD though it shows coverage for years 78 to 85. http://www.strutmasters.com/Rear-Self-Le...05-300.htm
Product Code:102-805-300

Then they have this one for
http://www.strutmasters.com/mercedes-240...-s/138.htm

Quote:Fits: 1978-1985 Mercedes 240TD - (Rear)
Mercedes Self Leveling Shock � Fits 1978-1985 Mercedes 240TD

Product Code:102-805-240

Video clip talks about a lifetime warranty.

(07-14-2009 09:47 PM)85-300Dt Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 06:33 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  I'm not sure which, if any bolt to a W123.

Probly this one (x2) for 300TD though it shows coverage for years 78 to 85. http://www.strutmasters.com/Rear-Self-Le...05-300.htm
Product Code:102-805-300

Then they have this one for
http://www.strutmasters.com/mercedes-240...-s/138.htm

Quote:Fits: 1978-1985 Mercedes 240TD - (Rear)
Mercedes Self Leveling Shock � Fits 1978-1985 Mercedes 240TD

Product Code:102-805-240

Video clip talks about a lifetime warranty.

Those two products are the same. Both are the stock hydraulic struts for the W123 wagon. They have a very good price, almost too good.

Springs arrived today! They go in tomorrow. Will post tomorrow PM with results (if they don't break the spring compressor, damn are they beefy!)

Am I the only one keeping this page up and reloading it about once an hour to see if it's been updated? LOL

(07-25-2009 01:40 PM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  Am I the only one keeping this page up and reloading it about once an hour to see if it's been updated? LOL

Sorry to keep you waiting still. Something came up and its gonna be another day. Look for results tomorrow evening.

Springs are in! I did not have time to install the shocks, and other things need doing before the car is drivable but the ride height looks good and it seems to have adequate resistance when I jump on the bumper. If anything, the ride height is slightly high, because I used the big shims with 3 "nubs" on them. I will install the shocks and drive it tomorrow afternoon to see if the springs settle in a little more, otherwise I'll probably have to install shorter shims.

Reload

Hi all! Coupe and Sedan rear shocks, both normal and SLS, have a different lenght than the Wagon SLS shocks so they are not interchangeable.
As most of you belive that the SLS shocks are just simle hydraulic struts i won't argue on that, but i'd sure like to

(07-26-2009 08:27 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  Springs are in! I did not have time to install the shocks, and other things need doing before the car is drivable but the ride height looks good and it seems to have adequate resistance when I jump on the bumper. If anything, the ride height is slightly high, because I used the big shims with 3 "nubs" on them. I will install the shocks and drive it tomorrow afternoon to see if the springs settle in a little more, otherwise I'll probably have to install shorter shims.

that's good news man! I am looking to do the same thing as the ass end of my 123 is just a bit too low for my liking. Ill have to give those lads a call in the morning.

Try to send a pic of the side view of the car when you get a chance, im curious to see the ride height.

(07-28-2009 01:29 PM)mbkomfort Wrote:  Hi all! Coupe and Sedan rear shocks, both normal and SLS, have a different lenght than the Wagon SLS shocks so they are not interchangeable.
As most of you belive that the SLS shocks are just simle hydraulic struts i won't argue on that, but i'd sure like to

I had to jack the 300D shocks into position, but with a little coaxing they went in fine. However, the ones I used were from a junk car and they seem to be inadequate. I'll get Bilstien HDs and put them in. The ride height is a bit too high so I'm going to get the shortest available shims and install them along with the shocks. Otherwise, the springs are not too bad overall. They are a little too stiff, that is, the ride is certainly harder than the SLS. It is not terrible, just different. HD shock absorbers and ride height correction should take the bounce out of it. I'll upload a pic sometime soon.

As for shock absorber height, I'll look into finding ones that are better suited, or consider raising the shock mounts. Any ideas?

You want to be careful on adjusting the shock mounts or using aftermarket shocks, I have monroe shocks in mine and when I put it on a lift at work you can play the rear brake hoses like a guitar. so limiting straps were reqd. But definitely keep up the posts on what you decide to do about that. Also one question how far apart are the coils on the spring from each other when it is on the ground?

(07-30-2009 08:28 AM)MB TECH Wrote:  You want to be careful on adjusting the shock mounts or using aftermarket shocks, I have monroe shocks in mine and when I put it on a lift at work you can play the rear brake hoses like a guitar. so limiting straps were reqd. But definitely keep up the posts on what you decide to do about that. Also one question how far apart are the coils on the spring from each other when it is on the ground?

What would cause the brake hoses to tension like that? The trailing arms have hooks that keep them from going down too far.. they will need re-enforcing with these springs though! They bent noticeably when I was installing them. Are yours missing? Where did you mount the straps on your car? That might be the option I'll go for. I'll take a picture today of the coil spacing and the ride height.

EDIT: What shocks do you guys use with lowering springs on the W123?