Yes please more videos I'm still drooling form the last one!!! Cant wait till you have some 5sps videos as well!!!!

Did some more tuning, I advanced the timing on the pump and it idles smoother now and the smoke at idle is significantly less - I may advance it bit more and see what happens.

I also put in a switch the turn the ALDA off for cruisng around town, there is still plenty of fuel for fun. When I flip the switch, it is an air type switch, it allows the ALDA to operate and give full fuel or what it is limited to by the stop adjsutment.

I have given her more fuel, probably 60% capacity and it runs like a striped ape.

Tomorrow I will be going to Irwindale Speedway and make a couple of 1/8th mile runs - I don't expect anything crazy as the trans is still flaring and slips a bit. I just want to see what it will do and get a reaction from the non Mercedes crowd.

And yes we will shoot some videos.

Shit. . If I wasn't busy, I be there to watch!

Rudolf REPORT!

(09-03-2010 10:26 AM)Captain America Wrote:  Rudolf REPORT!

Hold your horses Grass Hoppa...

I went to Irwindale last night and as I was in Tech Inspection I was told I need to have pants, damn it - so I went home, couple of miles away and retrieved some pants. The inspector also told me that next time I would need a jacket because I have a turbo / Supercharger. If the car was faster than 8 sec, I would need a helmet.

The first run, I ran with the fuel enrichment coming on with boost and the bypass valves operational - It ran ok, but I wanted a little more so I removed the fuel enrichment and disabled the bypass valves. It was much better off the line.

I has increased the fuel slightly, but I am only at ~60% capacity. I will do a few tweaks and turn up the fuel next time to see how it improves. These runs also have a flaring trans so I may shift manually next time time to find the sweet spot.

Here is the time slip and video...
   

bwa haha! bet you that came as a surprise to the acura. Beat by a big sedan twice his size like that not even running at full capacity! That video had me giggling like a little kid

Very nice, and pretty good 60' also. When I was testing the pump, it took me some time to get the launch down, and I found
that shifting manually helped a great deal thereafter.

Try those transmission control settings we talked about for next time, once you have things sorted out.

At the end of the 1/8 mi you were travelling about 14.5 mph faster than the intergra = a lot more hp

(09-03-2010 11:26 AM)dropnosky Wrote:  bwa haha! bet you that came as a surprise to the acura. Beat by a big sedan twice his size like that not even running at full capacity!

It was pretty cool! I had quite a few people ask me about the car and take pics...they seemed to be amazed at the fact that I was twin charged and it looked like a stocker from the outside - I would say I have achieved my goal!

Relatively speaking, I was no speed demon, but I was faster than a few of the other cars - one was a basically stock 305 Camaro that had a dialed in time of 10.50. There was a Corvette, supercharged I think, that ran 114 mph, I don't remember the time, but it was fast!

Great job for the first run and still dialing it in!

Love the video shot. Especially the launch. You got great weight transfer there!


.

I'd like to see a quarter mile number with a fixed up trans

I love the fact that there is so little smoke!!! One amazing project.

love it, great inspiration, keep it up.

Almost there......need 1/4 mile video and more fuel.....

So, when it is time to add some fuel and air in to engine?

(09-03-2010 07:08 PM)MJF Wrote:  So, when it is time to add some fuel and air in to engine?

I am taking it slowly, I want my engine to last for more than one video - read as green wagon

So, based on the time stamp on the slip, we are seeing the future?

That's freaking sweet! I bet the Honda kid is getting it from his friends!

(09-03-2010 08:11 PM)E300TSC Wrote:  So, based on the time stamp on the slip, we are seeing the future?

4/SEP/2010

I just noticed that sometimes it takes another set of eyes to notice the little things!

I'm new to all of this...

A few points I want to know about...

1 - where's the super turbos? (I don't mean in this thread).

2 - Could you take a few pix of the engine WITH everything labeled? arrows etc.

3 - I see you did get it to run with 0psi boost at idle as you wanted... SO... My boss (a big turbo dealer - who is LESS than a purist you could say - he hates stuff like this)... my boss said that if you took off a turbo from a turbo engine it would damage the pistons...................... In effect are you risking your pistons like you would with a engine missing it's turbo? He called it cleaning I think - I didn't understand.

4 - What are you using for high beams.

5 - What is your max psi, do you have a pyro... and whats the temp of your intake at the engine?

I am going to bring my twincharged car and we will meet iN Irwindale. I just need to dyno it and it will be ready

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  my boss said that if you took off a turbo from a turbo engine it would damage the pistons

Lets put it this way, your boss should stick to selling them.

That kind of myth perpetuation needs to go in the dumpster along with "engines need backpressure to keep the exhaust valves cool".

Thanks for the reply but it doesn't help me much. I was looking for quite a bit more info. Also .. Anyone on here seen a thread on using a turbo/e-turbo combo?

(09-03-2010 10:21 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote:  

(09-03-2010 08:11 PM)E300TSC Wrote:  So, based on the time stamp on the slip, we are seeing the future?

4/SEP/2010

I just noticed that sometimes it takes another set of eyes to notice the little things!

The car's so fast that it created a time warp, skipped Friday and went straight to Saturday evening racing!

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  I'm new to all of this...

A few points I want to know about...

1 - where's the super turbos? (I don't mean in this thread).

Not everyone has the intention of twin charging, but maybe theere will be some more interest in this.

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  2 - Could you take a few pix of the engine WITH everything labeled? arrows etc.

What would you like to know? everything is pretty self explanatory if you read the thread.

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  3 - I see you did get it to run with 0psi boost at idle as you wanted... SO... My boss (a big turbo dealer - who is LESS than a purist you could say - he hates stuff like this)... my boss said that if you took off a turbo from a turbo engine it would damage the pistons...................... In effect are you risking your pistons like you would with a engine missing it's turbo? He called it cleaning I think - I didn't understand.

I did run a zero boost, easy to do, but now I have 2 psi at idle and 10 psi at 1500.

What does your boss hate? people that build cars to squeeze out power?

If you remove the turbo and run the vehicle N/A - it should essentially last forever since it would never see boost and be built for punishment that it will never see.

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  4 - What are you using for high beams.

Standard OEM lights, not sure what that has to do with anything???

(09-03-2010 10:42 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  5 - What is your max psi, do you have a pyro... and whats the temp of your intake at the engine?

I am running 25 lbs. of boost

I have a EGT sensor and I have not seen over 1050*F

I have not measured the IAT yet.

(09-04-2010 06:10 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote:  Not everyone has the intention of twin charging, but maybe theere will be some more interest in this.

When I first saw the videos from this site I looked up what a SuperTurbo is... A turbo/supercharger in one unit but then found no one seems to make such things. Now Ive found http://www.vandynesuperturbo.com/technology.html its a new thing and has very little data.

Time for new thread I guess.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/alte...-1702.html

(09-04-2010 06:10 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Wrote:  What would you like to know? everything is pretty self explanatory if you read the thread.

I did run a zero boost, easy to do, but now I have 2 psi at idle and 10 psi at 1500.

What does your boss hate? people that build cars to squeeze out power?

If you remove the turbo and run the vehicle N/A - it should essentially last forever since it would never see boost and be built for punishment that it will never see.

I'm not sure I've fig. my boss out yet... Like putting a turbo on a non turboed engine - "Cant do it. How could you" He's a ero mech.

The high beams ref. to your headlite pic of the big booby girl.

(09-04-2010 10:49 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  Now Ive found http://www.vandynesuperturbo.com/technology.html its a new thing and has very little data.

There wouldn't be much benefit to that system, centrifugal superchargers are the worst option for any vehicle. They have none of the benefits of a positive displacement supercharger or turbocharger and all the detriments of both.
Most of the claims and math that company presents doesn't add up in the real world.

Superturbo came from Finland. They generally considered superturbo diesel cars producing over 100hp/liter.

We have yet to see a supertubo in this forum (not from finland ).

It is going to be a bit hard as most people here use the 3 liter om 617, so to be considered a superturbo it needs to produce over 300 hp.

(09-05-2010 03:01 AM)Deni Wrote:  We have yet to see a supertubo in this forum (not from finland ).

Two actually.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-...t-858.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/1998...-1179.html

(09-05-2010 03:47 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 03:01 AM)Deni Wrote:  We have yet to see a supertubo in this forum (not from finland ).

Two actually.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/new-...t-858.html
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/1998...-1179.html

Are these projects finished and already achieved the 100+ hp/liter?

(09-05-2010 03:55 AM)Deni Wrote:  Are these projects finished and already achieved the 100+ hp/liter?

Then three by your definition of "superturbo".
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/dyno...l#pid16195

(09-05-2010 04:00 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 03:55 AM)Deni Wrote:  Are these projects finished and already achieved the 100+ hp/liter?

Then three by your definition of "superturbo".
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/dyno...l#pid16195

I couldn't find there any merc doing over 100hp/liter.

(09-05-2010 04:18 AM)Deni Wrote:  I couldn't find there any merc doing over 100hp/liter.

Read the link.

(09-05-2010 05:11 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 04:18 AM)Deni Wrote:  I couldn't find there any merc doing over 100hp/liter.

Read the link.

Best 253whp dynoed Not far from 300@crank

Not far? its pretty well above 300hp at the crank.

(09-04-2010 10:49 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  I'm not sure I've fig. my boss out yet... Like putting a turbo on a non turboed engine - "Cant do it. How could you" He's a ero mech.

Rudolf is using an OM617 engine as his base engine which CAME with a turbo from the factory, he then went nuts and built this setup, but the point is that this is a turbo engine with all the internal changes to support that.

The majority of 617 5cyl engines sold in the US were turbo charged with better oiling and heat management over the NA versions. Im sure your boss is aware that there were different versions of the same engines for NA and turbo applications.

No offense, but your boss sounds like a somewhat unimaginative mechanic. In my experience, I have come across a lot of guys who tell you something can't be done. There are far less people who ask "Why cant it be done? How can I do it?" Often its these types of people who become the true experts on what something can do, or how things can be done.

---

(09-05-2010 03:01 AM)Deni Wrote:  Superturbo came from Finland. They generally considered superturbo diesel cars producing over 100hp/liter.

We have yet to see a supertubo in this forum (not from finland ).

It is going to be a bit hard as most people here use the 3 liter om 617, so to be considered a superturbo it needs to produce over 300 hp.

why define the idea of a "superturbo" under such a narrow definition as only a specific amount of HP per liter? Why even define it?

If a definition is truly necessary, I think it should be a percentage measurement over stock HP, not a bar measurement which cuts out all much smaller engine modifications. If I have a 50hp engine and managed to increase it to 100hp, I have realized a 100% increase in HP, which by any standards, would be "super"!

It is not my definition.

As I said IIRC the term superturbo was used by the Finns for diesel cars (generally they use old ones) which could get 100+ hp/liter. I think it is a nice goal.

If you take an om616, 2.4 liter ~68ish hp, then modify it to almost twice its output, to ~130 hp, it would be "super". But imagine having an om616 modified to ~240hp. It wouldn't be "super", it would be "suoerturbo" .

Anyways, this doesn't make other projects such as this one, less important. The workmanship here is awesome, and it's a pleasure to look at these pics.

Ive been under the impression that a superturbodiesel, is a diesel that is both supercharged and turbocharged..hence the name??
What should the name "superturbo" have to do with horsepower per liter? I think thats a load of crap.

Whatever the definition is I am not really sure; I may or may not be there because I have not dynoed the car yet. I did not make the car to meet or exceed anyone's definition. I did to see if I could make a similar system to what the green wagon had, but more practical and a daily driver. I will still have the creature comforts of an S-class and be able to smoke any other 617 on the road.

I appreciate the compliments and don't get me wrong, all opinions have some merit, some more than others - that being said, I am very stubborn and will eventually build it my way.

In a few weeks I plan on taking it to the dyno, I am just working out the bugs to see what is the best setup for street and strip witout too many changes. I am trying to make the mode change as easy as possible with the activation of a few switches or the turn of a dial.

The car will most likely be more than the output of Dervtruning's dyno runs as he only had a turbo. I want to keep the power level down so that the engine stays together - it is no fun having a useless piece of iron sitting in the driveway.

"superturbo" calling came when 100hp/litre was A LOT from diesel. Nowadays it´s nothing, even factory engines has more.

(09-05-2010 02:53 AM)ForcedInduction Wrote:  

(09-04-2010 10:49 PM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  Now Ive found http://www.vandynesuperturbo.com/technology.html its a new thing and has very little data.

There wouldn't be much benefit to that system, centrifugal superchargers are the worst option for any vehicle. They have none of the benefits of a positive displacement supercharger or turbocharger and all the detriments of both.
Most of the claims and math that company presents doesn't add up in the real world.

Wasn't really any math or anything else I thought just "oh hey invest in this and it will change the car biz"

---

These are great posts... I hate following fourms but this is great. Now if I only had a 300sd again. Boy will I have a plan...............

Well, I didn't mean to say there is no Santa Claus .

I read the Super Turbo term back in 2005-2006 from Mercedesshop Forum (?now Peach Parts?) and I thought it was commonly thought as such.

anyway we should not count each single hp and compare it to smoking youtube monsters that were built starting years ago...
Also I think we don't need a definition of Superturbo.
What counts is the fact that Rudolf's SD (617a engine) has the potential for high performance in combination with driveability in an unusual set up.
The project is still not finished and will have a different target compared to the youtube monsters.

Tom

Wheel HP, to me, has always been a hp:pound and I think that is a great way to judge.

Ah driveability just what has Mr Diesel planned for the REST of the car? Airbags maybe? Re-tract-able wheelie bar maybe?

(09-06-2010 07:57 AM)BriZZell Dride Wrote:  Wheel HP, to me, has always been a hp:pound and I think that is a great way to judge.

Ah driveability just what has Mr Diesel planned for the REST of the car? Airbags maybe? Re-tract-able wheelie bar maybe?

My future plans include: 1. 5-speed Tremec TKO600; 2. 18" wheels; 3. more comfortable seats for the driver/passenger; 4. body work to get rid of dings; 5. air bags have crossed my mind, but I don't think I will go there - maybe some lowering springs, but only an 1", 2" at max.

A wheelie bar not needed, the thought never crossed my mind.

Rudolf,

thanks for the video. Seeing the ricer kill made my day. We are going to have to start giving you little Japanese flags to put on your door for each confirmed kill.

Is it just me or is everyone reading the timeslip wrong? The acura beat him by.009 seconds.

(09-08-2010 05:26 PM)meareweird Wrote:  The acura beat him by.009 seconds.

I wasn't going to mention it.

Thats what happened to me at Bandimere. I held off a Ram 1500 Hemi easily up to the 1/8th mile but past that the g@sser got into its upper RPM range and nosed ahead.
   

(09-08-2010 05:26 PM)meareweird Wrote:  Is it just me or is everyone reading the timeslip wrong? The acura beat him by.009 seconds.

If you look at the video I have the lights for the win though....not sure what happened, but according to the slip I was 14 mph faster and the slip says "Right" wins...

The date is funky too, could be an error somewhere???

I am going to go again tomorrow and do a few runs this time with max fuel. I cranked it up on Monday and took it for a ride - It pulls like a V8 and just keeps going. I let my brother drive, as he is more crazy than I am...we were doing 95 on the freeway with it floored and ~30 lbs of boost, the trans was slipping a bit and the tach was reading 4900...the EGT was at 1250, when I told him to back off...if it were not for the trans slipping it would have been faster.

I will also be at the California Speedway or what ever it is called these days, on Saturday, September 18, it is their twilight street racing. Gates open at 12 and racing starts from 2 pm to 10.

I looked at the final MPH. Time is great, speed is where its at. 1/4 mile and the SD would have smoke him. The kid in the bg of the video is priceless. Most people are happy with a 10sec 0-60 (I was ecstatic), you laid down another 10mph on top.

(09-08-2010 08:40 PM)winmutt Wrote:  I looked at the final MPH. Time is great, speed is where its at. 1/4 mile and the SD would have smoke him. The kid in the bg of the video is priceless. Most people are happy with a 10sec 0-60 (I was ecstatic), you laid down another 10mph on top.

That is my younger son - he was pretty excited watching Dad race.