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Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
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tomnik Offline
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Post: #1
Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Hi,

I am looking for the pin destination of the Garrett (Hella) electronic actuator for the VTGs.
I thought I saw it some when but can not find it.

Tom
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2009 11:00 AM by winmutt.)
08-18-2009 09:13 AM
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Tymbrymi Offline
Klatta Klatta
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Post: #2
RE: electronic actuator?
(08-18-2009 09:13 AM)tomnik Wrote:  I am looking for the pin destination of the Garrett (Hella) electronic actuator for the VTGs.
I thought I saw it some when but can not find it.

I'm pretty sure Y100/1 is the turbocharger actuator (going from a saved PDF without the key). I know the frequency for the PWM signal you send to it, but I want to double check it before I post it. I have controlled the actuator using a function generator and it works perfectly!! Big Grin


.png  ActuatorPinout.PNG (Size: 56.3 KB / Downloads: 4877)

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
08-25-2009 01:15 PM
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tomnik Offline
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Post: #3
RE: electronic actuator?
Thanks.
Let me know the frequency of the PWM signal when you have it.
12 V?
I work on getting a "black box" with boost pressure input and PWM output. First step is to controll the N75 valve of the TDIs connected to vac and a vac actuator on the VTG. Maybe I can alternatively connect the electronic actuator also to the PWM signal.
We will see.

Tom
08-27-2009 07:15 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #4
RE: electronic actuator?
VTG or VNT? What model is this for? John what PDF is that from?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-01-2009 09:01 AM
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Tymbrymi Offline
Klatta Klatta
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Post: #5
RE: electronic actuator?
(09-01-2009 09:01 AM)winmutt Wrote:  VTG or VNT? What model is this for? John what PDF is that from?

The PDF was made from the W211 DVD service manual (the ETM part to be specific). The DVD has some copy protection stuff going on, so you have to print the current schematic to a "PDF printer" (PDF Creator) onto *huge* page size. Then you can crop it down to something reasonable.

The schematic is for the GT23 on my '05 CDI. It just so happens that it uses the same Hella actuator as the GT20 I have from a 2007 Sprinter. I think all the Hella actuators are the same, and can be controlled this way. I used a portable oscilloscope from work to get the PWM frequency, and applied that same signal to the GT20 on the bench, and it works flawlessly. Big Grin

I might have a chance to verify the frequency today. Time will tell!

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
09-01-2009 09:28 AM
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tomnik Offline
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Post: #6
RE: electronic actuator?
Thanks,
meanwhile I get the parts build to operate the vac valve N75 from Audi/VW for the vac actuator. Hopefully the PWM signal can also control the electronic actuator in the future with some minor modification in case the N75 solution is not satisfying me.

Time will tell..

Tom
09-01-2009 09:49 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #7
RE: electronic actuator?
(09-01-2009 09:28 AM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  I might have a chance to verify the frequency today. Time will tell!

Sweet. That $40 arduino board I have will control one of these super easy.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-01-2009 03:51 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #8
RE: electronic actuator?
I haven't had a chance to double check it on hardware, but I did fine a camera picture I took of the portable scope that has the period on it. The period is 7.1ms which works out to 140-141Hz. Vanes full open and fully closed don't respond to 0% and 100%, it goes from something like 10%-95% so that a short to ground or 12V won't cause any problems (it'll go to vanes fully open).

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
09-03-2009 08:31 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #9
RE: electronic actuator?
So pin 1 is the signal? I am going to get a working sample of the arduino code for controlling PWM motors and give this puppy a spin! Thanks for breaking the code man, this was an INVALUABLE post.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-03-2009 01:18 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #10
RE: electronic actuator?
(09-03-2009 01:18 PM)winmutt Wrote:  So pin 1 is the signal? I am going to get a working sample of the arduino code for controlling PWM motors and give this puppy a spin! Thanks for breaking the code man, this was an INVALUABLE post.

Pin 1 is 12V, pin 2 is ground, pin 4 is the PWM signal. Big Grin

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
09-03-2009 01:32 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #11
RE: electronic actuator?
Ah ya that might make a bit of a difference. Makes more sense as well Big Grin

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-03-2009 02:23 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
I've renamed this thread appropriately to deal with the GT Hella actuator specifically.

Tymbrini, were you able to scope it and confirm the frequency? A printout of the wave would be tits. As Iposted in the arduino thread, the closest I get to 140hz is 125hz with the internal timing. Now I can bit bang the outputs in code however any interrupts would have to be carefully timed to maintain the frequency, this greatly limits the amount of reading I can do. A read out or that picture of the wave would be a good start. If your up for it see if you can get the motor to respond to 125hz. If we can get it to run on 125hz then that frees up the board for all kinds of interrupts.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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(This post was last modified: 09-04-2009 08:34 AM by winmutt.)
09-04-2009 08:21 AM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
Winmutt, it's Tymbrymi with a "y" and an "m" Wink

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to get it working last night. Work kept me late and I bought an iPhone so I ended up playing with my cool toy Angel

My old phone's camera was crappy on a good day, but I will take a picture of the waveform created by the function generator. I'll also post info on when the actuator actually starts to move since there is some dead band around the edges.

That Arduino's PWM module is freaky and a PITA. G'luck with getting that to work at the 140Hz frequency. I will check it at 125Hz for you though!

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
09-04-2009 11:30 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
Well like I said I can bit bang it, its just that 140hz is very odd for a PWM I would think, its not a factor of binary.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-04-2009 12:29 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
(09-04-2009 12:29 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Well like I said I can bit bang it, its just that 140hz is very odd for a PWM I would think, its not a factor of binary.

Being a factor of binary doesn't affect this specific situation... On every other microcontroller I've used 140Hz would be super easy to obtain, and I'm sure it is on this one. The datasheet is just confusing.

I posted in the other thread as well, but will post here as well to keep info a little more localized..

Quote:If I'm reading the datasheet properly, those are the max frequencies when using those specific clock sources. Look at page 120 of the datasheet, and use "Fast PWM mode". You'll use the 16Mhz clock frequency divided by 8 as the clock source to the timer (TCCR1B = xxxxx010). This determines the frequency of the "ticks" (500ns). Since it is a 16-bit counter, you can have up to 65,535 ticks in the period. 7.1ms / 500ns = 14,200 ticks, which will give you the 140Hz frequency. Use the fast PWM mode where you put "top" in ICR1 (WGM13:0 = 14), and load the 14,200 into ICR1. In order to change the duty cycle you will load a number into OCR1x between 0 and 14,200. The percentage of 14,200 you enter will be the duty factor.

Did that make any sense? The datasheet is still pretty confusing to me...

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
09-04-2009 01:36 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
(09-04-2009 11:30 AM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  Winmutt, it's Tymbrymi with a "y" and an "m" Wink
the 140Hz frequency. I will check it at 125Hz for you though!

I'll just call you John. Big Grin

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-04-2009 03:17 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
Things are looking good. This is my first version of running code. If the frequency is right then it *should* continuously open and close the vanes in 10% increments.. Current I have pin 9 (pwm out pin on the arduino) hooked up to analog in pin 0 which allowed me to read the PWM signal and verify at least that the duty cycle is cycling properly.

Code:
#include <avr/interrupt.h>

int vntPin = 9;        // LED connected to digital pin 9
int vanePos = 0 ;
int cnt = 0;
int dir = 0;

void setup()    {
    //graph
    Serial.begin(57600);

    //140hz 7.1ms ==
    TCCR1A = _BV(COM0A0) | _BV(WGM01);
    TCCR1B = _BV(CS02) | _BV(CS00);
    OCR1A = 222;
}

void loop()    {
    if  (cnt % 1000==0) {
        if (dir==1) {
            if(vanePos < 255) {
                vanePos +=25.5;
                if (vanePos>255)vanePos=255;
            }
            else {
                dir=0;
            }
        }
        else {
            if(vanePos >0) {
                vanePos -=25.5;
                if (vanePos<0) vanePos=0;
            }
            else {
                dir=1;
            }
        }    
        analogWrite(vntPin, vanePos);                
    }

    Serial.println(analogRead(0));

    delay(5);
    cnt+=5;
}


Garrett Hella VNT acuator pics (Tymbrymi can you verify the pins?):

.jpg  hella.vnt.actuator.outside.jpg (Size: 67.24 KB / Downloads: 8487)

.jpg  hella.vnt.actuator.inside.jpg (Size: 71.34 KB / Downloads: 6805)

.jpg  hella.vnt.actuator.pcb.jpg (Size: 77.39 KB / Downloads: 7056)

Numbers :
712120-
6NW 008 412-

A quick search shows this is also used on ski-doo :http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=275990

Found more one this actuator (probable on GT turbo) from Mondeo site :

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/mk3-tdci-...vnav=unpin

.jpg  hella.actuator.mondeo.jpg (Size: 91.86 KB / Downloads: 6462)

Notice the different pin out. I have read that some of there acutators can use either PWM or CAN

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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(This post was last modified: 09-05-2009 12:18 PM by winmutt.)
09-05-2009 10:26 AM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
Enjoy!! Big Grin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqXGK3ZsWk

Pictures... http://picasaweb.google.com/Tymbrymi2/GarretActuator captions with pinouts coming soon.

Winmutt, totally forgot 125Hz. Sad

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2009 10:16 PM by Tymbrymi.)
09-05-2009 10:14 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Sweet. I need to find a scope I can use to verify my output and I am good to go.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Still no scope *but* I did find a plug on a '9 6vw that fits. Its not water proof like it should be properly. Today I will call Hella USA and see if they can provide me with any more information about this actuator.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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09-08-2009 10:12 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Hella's website has been down since Sat. I put in a call and got a vm box. We'll see if I get a call back.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(09-08-2009 02:21 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Hella's website has been down since Sat. I put in a call and got a vm box. We'll see if I get a call back.

According to the EPC the needed PN's are:

2205454628 -- $1.70 -- Qty 1 -- Connector housing
0005453184 -- $4.50 -- Qty 1 -- Connector housing boot
0005457980 -- $2.40 -- Qty 2? -- "Blind plug" Think these are for the unused pins so qty 2??
0005403805 -- $2.70 -- Qty 3 -- The pin contact for the wire
0015469941 -- $3.70 -- Qty 3 -- Connector sleeve (waterproofing rubber piece I think)
0025461441 -- $4.90 -- Qty 3 -- "Butt joint"

Holy cow this is one expensive connector!!! Hopefully those connector sleeves, etc come in five packs or something instead of individually.

Edit: The pictures are readable if you click on them Smile

.png  TurbochargerConnector.PNG (Size: 84.61 KB / Downloads: 3953)

.png  TurbochargerConnector2.PNG (Size: 25.46 KB / Downloads: 2382)

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2009 08:39 AM by Tymbrymi.)
09-09-2009 08:38 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Hella's website is back up today. I sent an email and called the guy listed as the tech contact for the actuators division. With any luck I'll get a call back. Still no scope......

[edit]

Left a note on a neigbors mailbox last night, he had some ham gear up so I figured there might be a good chance he had a scope. Has one he hasnt used in 20yrs and is all but letting me have it.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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(This post was last modified: 09-09-2009 12:15 PM by winmutt.)
09-09-2009 10:28 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Time to talk to Garrett.

Response from Hella.

Quote:I have been informed by Product Management that this item is proprietary to a manufacture and no information can be given out because of contractual agreements.

The thing I don't get is that this product is used by Garrett AND Skidoo. How can there be proprietary when there is more than one?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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Post: #25
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Something interesting on how Holset controls theirs, maybe it will be helpful.
From: http://www.holset.co.uk/pics-related/3_1...tion10.exe


Attached File(s)
.jpg  Picture 2.jpg (Size: 78.3 KB / Downloads: 11776)
09-14-2009 04:09 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Some movement on this again. Lance has sent me his old actuator. I am still looking for a scope, one popped up on CL cheap enough but I am flat broke. Also I got a response on the arduino forums, I had a few more questions but might finally be on the right track.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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10-19-2009 02:29 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
I got another update from the Arduino forums. Testing this week.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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(This post was last modified: 10-20-2009 10:51 AM by winmutt.)
10-20-2009 10:51 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
(09-05-2009 10:14 PM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  Enjoy!! Big Grin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqXGK3ZsWk

Pictures... http://picasaweb.google.com/Tymbrymi2/GarretActuator captions with pinouts coming soon.

Winmutt, totally forgot 125Hz. Sad
Is that 10v at 100% duty cycle?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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10-22-2009 11:22 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Garrett VNT Hella actuator.
(10-22-2009 11:22 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Is that 10v at 100% duty cycle?

10V is as high as that particular function generator goes to. If you view the high quality version you should be able to see the duty cycle ranges I used. Keep in mind that there are two different PWM things going on. When it is automatically moving the PWM frequency is the frequency at which the actuator is sweeping (ie, 2Hz made the actuator go 0-100-0-100 twice in a second).

If you watch the duty cycle and listen to actuator movement you should see that it starts moving from position vanes full open at 14% (0-14% duty cycle is open vanes), and reaches vanes fully closed at 94% duty cycle. At 98% duty cycle and above the actuator assumes the signal has been shorted to 12V and goes to the vanes open position.

Did that help any? Smile

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
10-23-2009 09:55 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Kind of. Arduino only makes 5volts for the PWM signal Sad. Any chance of you testing with 5v? Still no luck getting a scope down here. I tested last night on two controllers no luck.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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10-23-2009 01:41 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-23-2009 01:41 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Kind of. Arduino only makes 5volts for the PWM signal Sad. Any chance of you testing with 5v? Still no luck getting a scope down here. I tested last night on two controllers no luck.

You'll need to get an n-channel logic level MOSFET. Basically it'll act as a 12V switch activated by a 5V signal. I can post more later if you want, but I'm feeling lazy right now so I'll post more about it later.

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
10-23-2009 03:51 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Well I can tell you that 12volt + will fry the board :~( Good thing I have 2!

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
10-27-2009 08:42 AM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
WOW! You guys have made some serious progress since I was last on here. Guess I can scrap my actuator mods that I started designing before the summer and never finished (involving directly controlling the motor in the actuator and using a TPS sensor for feedback)...

I left my turbo in the shed at my moms house and it flooded over the summer while I was out of state, so its completely rusted Sad...I'll be looking for a new turbo soon, and can hopefully get this project done, finally.

winmutt: if you feel like driving up to athens any time, u can use my old HP 120B scope, it'll do a few KHz, not the latest tech but it works... old heavy and full of vacuum tubes Big Grin

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2009 11:58 PM by 300SD81.)
10-27-2009 11:36 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-27-2009 08:42 AM)winmutt Wrote:  Well I can tell you that 12volt + will fry the board :~( Good thing I have 2!

That sucks!!!! Sad I guess I really lucked out with the 10V. You would think an automotive part would have 12V protection Rolleyes Double suck since it didn't work with your 5V code either.

I don't think I'll have the chance to test it at 5V any time soon. I have the turbo at the house now instead of work, and I'd have to get everything all set up again... Right now I'm trying to get my SD instrumented so I can start fooling around with it.
(10-27-2009 11:36 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  Guess I can scrap my actuator mods that I started designing before the summer and never finished (involving directly controlling the motor in the actuator and using a TPS sensor for feedback)...

Wasn't that for the big Holset turbo? We still don't have the CAN messages for that. Sad

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 09:50 AM by Tymbrymi.)
10-28-2009 09:48 AM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-28-2009 09:48 AM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  
(10-27-2009 11:36 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  Guess I can scrap my actuator mods that I started designing before the summer and never finished (involving directly controlling the motor in the actuator and using a TPS sensor for feedback)...

Wasn't that for the big Holset turbo? We still don't have the CAN messages for that. Sad

Nope, I got the GT2256V. I lost the board schematic file, but I remember posting an image of it somewhere on here. If anyones interested in making it work, I'll can still help out.. Lifes been crazy and I don't have much time tho...



(10-27-2009 08:42 AM)winmutt Wrote:  Well I can tell you that 12volt + will fry the board :~( Good thing I have 2!

Are you saying that 12V on the PWM input will fry it? Confused

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 10:20 PM by 300SD81.)
10-28-2009 10:34 AM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Made this up while I was bored in class.. Maybe this time I'll actually get something installed in the car before I change my mind and scrap the project again. I'm using an ethernet interface this time so I can easily test with a laptop rather than constantly reprogramming micros.. Still have the USB boost gauge I made a long time ago, so I can even use the laptop as a controller for a little while. Ordered the parts already, so if I do't get distracted by something again, I should have it built in a week or 2, but somehow I always do..

My prof looked at me like I was crazy when he saw my screen today Big Grin

[Image: expresspcb.th.png]


EDIT:

Started writing the code for this thing, has anyone confirmed if the actuator cares about the PWM frequency or not? Is it actually sampling the frequency, or just the average analog voltage? The lowest I can get my PWM on the uC is 3+KHz unless I lower the clock speed (64Mhz/4/16 = 1MHz timer frequency, but it the timer for PWM is only 8 bits). Might try feeding it an analog voltage this weekend, and if that dosen't work, I'll just bit-bang the pwm...

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2009 04:18 AM by 300SD81.)
10-29-2009 12:21 AM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
+12v PWM fried one of the controllers (bloated a resistor) and the TTL of 5v does nothing. Either my frequency is still off or its more than 5v. In the video Tymbrymi is using 10v. I'll be interested to see how things go. BTW long time no see, you back at school? I can send you the fried controller if you want to fix it and test with.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
10-29-2009 12:38 PM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-29-2009 12:38 PM)winmutt Wrote:  +12v PWM fried one of the controllers (bloated a resistor) and the TTL of 5v does nothing. Either my frequency is still off or its more than 5v. In the video Tymbrymi is using 10v.
Seems weird that something in a car would use something other than 12v or 5v..

Tymbrymi:

Did you get any voltage readings off the original car when you had it on a scope?


(10-29-2009 12:38 PM)winmutt Wrote:  I'll be interested to see how things go. BTW long time no see, you back at school? I can send you the fried controller if you want to fix it and test with.
Yep, back at school for a few months now, barely had time to drive the car lately, but I have a little time off for now. My controller should still be good, don't think any water got into it when it flooded, buy my turbos siezed Sad Might be fixable if I completely disassemble it, but its rusted solid..

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2009 02:07 PM by 300SD81.)
10-29-2009 02:06 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-29-2009 12:21 AM)300SD81 Wrote:  Started writing the code for this thing, has anyone confirmed if the actuator cares about the PWM frequency or not? Is it actually sampling the frequency, or just the average analog voltage?

Unfortunately, it DOES care about the frequency. Not sure what its range is, but I remember it didn't work at just any old frequency. Sad I don't think it'll work on an analog voltage either.

(10-29-2009 12:21 AM)300SD81 Wrote:  The lowest I can get my PWM on the uC is 3+KHz unless I lower the clock speed (64Mhz/4/16 = 1MHz timer frequency, but it the timer for PWM is only 8 bits). Might try feeding it an analog voltage this weekend, and if that dosen't work, I'll just bit-bang the pwm...

You could always get a better PIC Wink That definitely sucks though. It's annoying to have to bit-bang stuff when you have a hardware peripheral that should be able to do it.
(10-29-2009 02:06 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  Did you get any voltage readings off the original car when you had it on a scope?

Yep! But they're on my old phone, which I won't be able to get to till tonight. I'll try and post them if I get the chance.
(10-29-2009 12:38 PM)winmutt Wrote:  +12v PWM fried one of the controllers (bloated a resistor) and the TTL of 5v does nothing.

Sounds to me like that was a capacitor. Still that's very strange.

A note to all about soldering on this board... it is a ceramic PCB. In my experience with ceramic PCBs at work, they are EXTREMELY easy to shatter. They are VERY sensitive to differences in temperature. With the PCBs we had made, when you put a soldering iron on a pad while the rest of the PCB is at room temperature the PCB would shatter. You will probably have to use a reflow oven (or toaster oven Wink) to get it to work, and who knows how much of that other stuff would get screwed up in the process. That's my $.02 since it could very well be just the PCBs we had made, and this one is much sturdier. However, I think that's why there are those blocks/pads to wire the PCB to the housing. You can wirebond those wires quickly and the thermal mass of the block/pad will keep the PCB itself from getting warm.

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2009 02:19 PM by Tymbrymi.)
10-29-2009 02:12 PM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-29-2009 02:12 PM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  Unfortunately, it DOES care about the frequency. Not sure what its range is, but I remember it didn't work at just any old frequency. Sad I don't think it'll work on an analog voltage either.

You could always get a better PIC Wink That definitely sucks though. It's annoying to have to bit-bang stuff when you have a hardware peripheral that should be able to do it.

Yep! But they're on my old phone, which I won't be able to get to till tonight. I'll try and post them if I get the chance.

Guess I'll just bit-bang it then, not too hard anyways, I can still use the timer to do most of the work.. I could get a better one, but what am I going to do with the stack of 18F14K22s I ordered for another scrapped project??Undecided

Looking forward to those voltage readings before I try anything on the actuator.

EDIT: Any ideas on what the resolution of the actuator is? I kinda want to drop it down to 256 possible steps to get some cpu cycles back...

Heres the PWM code I worked up, seems to run ok in the simulator.
[Image: scr1.th.png][Image: scr2w.th.png]

1000ms/7.119938ms = 140.45066Hz, should be close enough...
Code:
#include <p18cxxx.h>
#include "enc28j60.h"
#include "typedefs.h"

void init(void);
void pwm_init(void);
void isr_high(void);
void isr_low(void);

volatile BYTE pwm_duty_cycle = 128;
#define PWM_HIGH_STATE 0
#define PWM_LOW_STATE 1

/**************** INTERRUPTS ****************/
#pragma code high_vector=0x08
void interrupt_at_high_vector(void) {
    _asm GOTO isr_high _endasm
}
#pragma code

#pragma code low_vector=0x18
void interrupt_at_low_vector(void) {
    _asm GOTO isr_low _endasm
}
#pragma code

#pragma interrupt isr_high
void isr_high(void) {
    /**High Priority ISR**/
    /**Timer0 Overflow**/
    //TMR0L = 32;
    static BYTE pwm_num_ovrflw = 0;
    TMR0L = 40;
    if (pwm_num_ovrflw == pwm_duty_cycle) {
        // PWM Pin Low
        PORTCbits.RC5 = PWM_LOW_STATE;
    }else if (pwm_num_ovrflw == 0xFF) {
        pwm_num_ovrflw = 0;
        // PWM Pin High
        PORTCbits.RC5 = PWM_HIGH_STATE;
    }
    pwm_num_ovrflw++;
    //Clear Interrupt Flag
    INTCONbits.TMR0IF = 0;
}

#pragma interruptlow isr_low
void isr_low(void) {
    /**Low Priority ISR**/
}
/************** END INTERRUPTS **************/

void main (void) {
    init();
    while (1) {
        _asm NOP _endasm
    }
}

void init (void) {
    
    //Set Oscillator to 64MHz
    OSCCONbits.IRCF0 = 1;
    OSCCONbits.IRCF1 = 1;
    OSCCONbits.IRCF2 = 1;

    //Set Pin 12 Output High (Pin 12 is the power source for the level shifter)
    TRISBbits.TRISB5 = 0;
    PORTBbits.RB5 = 1;

    //Enable Interrupt Priority
    RCONbits.IPEN = 1;
    //Disable All Individual Interrupts
    INTCON = 0;
    INTCON3 = 0;
    //Set All Peripherial Interrupts = Disabled & Low Priority
    PIE1 = 0;
    IPR1 = 0;
    PIE2 = 0;
    IPR2 = 0;
    //Global High/Low Priority Interrupt Enable
    INTCONbits.GIEH = 1;
    INTCONbits.GIEL = 1;

    // Initialize the Ethernet Module
    //enc_init();

    // Start PWM Output
    pwm_init();
}

void pwm_init (void) {
    /*
    Timer0 PWM Setup
        Increment at 8MHz (0.125us)
        Overflow every 27.9017858us (35840Hz) (for 256 step PWM)
            = Increment 223.214286x Before Overflow
                -> Start Timer at 255-223 = 32
    */

    // Pin 5 as Output
    TRISCbits.TRISC5 = 0;
    
    // PWM Low
    PORTCbits.RC5 = PWM_LOW_STATE;
    
    //Disable Timer0
    T0CONbits.TMR0ON = 0;

    // 8-Bit Timer
    T0CONbits.T08BIT = 1;

    // Use Instruction Clock
    T0CONbits.T0CS = 0;

    // 1:2 Prescaler, 8MHz
    T0CONbits.PSA = 0;
    T0CONbits.T0PS0 = 0;
    T0CONbits.T0PS1 = 0;
    T0CONbits.T0PS2 = 0;

    // Enable Timer0 Overflow Interrupt
    INTCONbits.TMR0IF = 0;
    INTCONbits.TMR0IE = 1;

    //Enable Timer
    T0CONbits.TMR0ON = 1;
}

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2009 10:51 PM by 300SD81.)
10-29-2009 05:01 PM
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Unregistered

 
Post: #41
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Quote: Unfortunately, it DOES care about the frequency. Not sure what its range is, but I remember it didn't work at just any old frequency. Sad I don't think it'll work on an analog voltage either.


Profuse thanks for posting up this great info!!
I had been Googling off and on for many moons for it...

The freq sweep would be very handy, Megasquirts EBC can do numerous freqs out of the box, and there are inexpensive frequency multipliers available for it as well, so it should be doable if it doesn't have to be exactly 140Hz.

This is the PWM freq. multiplier:
http://www.jbperf.com/pwm_converter/index.html

One more question:
Do any of the unused pins have a feedback position output?
(I suppose the OEM ECMs likely just throw a CEL if it cannot control boost)
10-29-2009 08:07 PM
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Tymbrymi Offline
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Location: Starkville, MS
Post: #42
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-29-2009 05:01 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  I could get a better one, but what am I going to do with the stack of 18F14K22s I ordered for another scrapped project??Undecided

I understand completely! I figured it was something along those lines, but still had to pick on ya Angel

(10-29-2009 05:01 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  Looking forward to those voltage readings before I try anything on the actuator.

Well, I forgot how much my old camera sucked ($5 phone to iPhone...), and I have the timing information in the viewing area, but not the V/div. That being said, I'm 99% sure it is 12V is because when the car was running, the voltage read higher. A regulated 5V supply *shouldn't* do that.

(10-29-2009 05:01 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  Any ideas on what the resolution of the actuator is? I kinda want to drop it down to 256 possible steps to get some cpu cycles back...

The most accurate positioning I've done with the actuator is what I did in that YouTube video, which was 1%. I didn't test to a finer resolution than that, and it probably isn't necessary as far as actually controlling boost pressure. Smile

(10-29-2009 08:07 PM)piledriver Wrote:  The freq sweep would be very handy

It's been a little while, but I think it has to be relatively close. A few Hz here or there probably won't matter, but 3-4 hundred probably will.

(10-29-2009 08:07 PM)piledriver Wrote:  Do any of the unused pins have a feedback position output?

All I know is the schematic for my CDI, which only has the three wires hooked up to it. On a hunch, I'm guessing the other two wires are for CAN control. That way the OE can choose if they want PWM or CAN for a certain application without increasing the parts they have to keep track of.

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
10-29-2009 09:29 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(10-29-2009 09:29 PM)Tymbrymi Wrote:  All I know is the schematic for my CDI, which only has the three wires hooked up to it. On a hunch, I'm guessing the other two wires are for CAN control. That way the OE can choose if they want PWM or CAN for a certain application without increasing the parts they have to keep track of.

Yes the Ford Mondeo uses CAN from what I have read.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
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10-30-2009 08:25 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Update for anyone whos interested.. parts came in today and I got the board 99% completed..just have to go home and get a micro drill bit to attach the programming header.

If anyones even considering making this.. DO NOT attempt to solder 0805 smt components without a good set of tweezers. You end up going to walmart and getting seen in the makeup aisle by the hot girl you see at the bar every night... Undecided Or drop them, its nearly impossible to find soemthing the size of a piece of sand in carpet....

USB adapters there for scale, its not part of the circuit...
[Image: image00547.th.jpg]

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2009 11:30 PM by 300SD81.)
11-02-2009 11:25 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Cool man. Are you just using boost signal?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
11-03-2009 03:48 PM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(11-03-2009 03:48 PM)winmutt Wrote:  Cool man. Are you just using boost signal?

Not sure what I'm going to use yet. That board does actuator movement only and gets input from ethernet, for now I'm going to control it from software on a laptop, but eventually I want to develop an entire ECU on a couple pic32 micros. As of right now I have a USB boost/exhast press./egt board for my laptop... I'm actually working on my own SMS-controlled 2 way remote start car alarm that will probably also get integrated in somehow..

I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm

after i get a throttle position sensor in, X will vary based on throttle position, i'm probably also going to add a smoke button that will fully open the vanes on demand

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2009 05:52 PM by 300SD81.)
11-03-2009 04:01 PM
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winmutt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
I like the #2 and particularly the alarm idea in #3.

My pressure sensors came in the fedex truck today. I am just going to suck it up and buy a scope since I can't find a decent one to borrow.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
11-04-2009 04:53 PM
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300SD81 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(11-04-2009 04:53 PM)winmutt Wrote:  I like the #2 and particularly the alarm idea in #3.

My pressure sensors came in the fedex truck today. I am just going to suck it up and buy a scope since I can't find a decent one to borrow.

You shouldn't need too good of a scope if your only using it to look at the PWM output. Mines older than my Benz and completely out of calibration, but I can still find 140Hz pretty easily. Just connect your scope to 60Hz AC, mine can take up to 300V, so I just use wall power, but it shoudln't be took hard to find a transformer that outputs 5, 9 or 12 VAC. Adjust it so that 60Hz takes up 7 units on the display, then connect your PWM to the scope, only changing the voltage sensitivity, 140Hz should be 3 units.

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2009 09:45 PM by 300SD81.)
11-04-2009 09:36 PM
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winmutt Offline
bitbanger
********


Posts: 3,357
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Atlanta GA
Post: #49
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(11-04-2009 09:36 PM)300SD81 Wrote:  
(11-04-2009 04:53 PM)winmutt Wrote:  I like the #2 and particularly the alarm idea in #3.

My pressure sensors came in the fedex truck today. I am just going to suck it up and buy a scope since I can't find a decent one to borrow.

You shouldn't need too good of a scope if your only using it to look at the PWM output. Mines older than my Benz and completely out of calibration, but I can still find 140Hz pretty easily. Just connect your scope to 60Hz AC, mine can take up to 300V, so I just use wall power, but it shoudln't be took hard to find a transformer that outputs 5, 9 or 12 VAC. Adjust it so that 60Hz takes up 7 units on the display, then connect your PWM to the scope, only changing the voltage sensitivity, 140Hz should be 3 units.
I know. The one I have is maybe 3x older than the benz Big Grin

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
11-05-2009 12:26 AM
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300SD81 Offline
GT2559V
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Posts: 186
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: University of Georgia
Post: #50
RE: Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
(11-05-2009 12:26 AM)winmutt Wrote:  I know. The one I have is maybe 3x older than the benz Big Grin

haha, if you have something older than this baby, I'd seriously like to see it. (Yes, those are vacuum tubes! and I still use it regularly Smile)

[Image: image00549.th.jpg][Image: image00550.th.jpg]

Ich liebe meine Autos!

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...

1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in Sad | Retired to garage.

Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2009 01:38 AM by 300SD81.)
11-05-2009 01:38 AM
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